For those thinking changing coaches will help

[cmhatter]

you are comparing Jim Leavitt to Lou Holtz

[Bull94]

And S. Carolina sold out every game when they went winless.

not quite true although the average announced attendance was pretty good for lou holtz first year. we all know how announced attendance figures are inflated.

what's interesting is that they sold 4,500 per game less this year through the first 9 games.

perhaps the fans aren't happy with the product?

http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/11/01/gamecock-football-attendance-plummets/

[bulldozier1]

 

We have a strong foundation and a change would set us back.

Leavitt was a good cement contractor, but he's a mediocre framing contractor.  The foundation he poured is solid, but the framing is behind schedule, getting shoddy and has been red tagged by the building inspector.   4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 2-5, 3-4

:lolnew Great way of putting it.

[Bull-by-Marriage]

also interesting to notice about the South Carloina comparison

2009 start 5-1 end 2-4

2008 start 5-2 end 2-4

2007 start 6-1 end 0-5

2006 start 5-2 end 3-3

starts 21-6 ends 7-16

USF

2009 start 5-0 end 2-5

2008 start 6-1 end 2-4

2007 start 6-0 end 3-4

2006 start 5-2 end 4-2

starts 22-3 ends 11-15

Five (5) letters and a > make discredit your argument.  SEC>BE

[BullsOnThaRize8]

Coaching changes will happen when the people in power believe the program is heading in the wrong direction. I feel like our goal of winning a big east championship was obtainable a a few years ago. We since fell apart. Is a bowl game good enough anymore? I mean look at who were playing and who we have beaten this year to get there. It really is unimpressive victories and if we win the bowl even less impressive. While everyone feels tied to CJL and his building of this program we forget that this happens all over the country. Coaching changes. We keep saying this happens at bigger programs but what are we striving to be? What are we saying if we keep paying someone the most in the big east to produce the least results. CJL not having his job anymore doesnt make what he did here any less special. He just isnt the coach that can take us to where we need to be. He doesnt have the capability to hire assistant coaches who can get the job done. We are among the worst coached teams as far as x's and o's in the nation. We are among the most undisciplined. Its time for change.

[Cubanbull]

also interesting to notice about the South Carloina comparison

2009 start 5-1 end 2-4

2008 start 5-2 end 2-4

2007 start 6-1 end 0-5

2006 start 5-2 end 3-3

starts 21-6 ends 7-16

USF

2009 start 5-0 end 2-5

2008 start 6-1 end 2-4

2007 start 6-0 end 3-4

2006 start 5-2 end 4-2

starts 22-3 ends 11-15

Five (5) letters and a > make discredit your argument.  SEC>BE

and wouldnt you say those 5 letters assures South Carolina of better recruits, they have always finished ahead of USF in recruiting and wouldnt you agree Spurrier and SC coaches are better than ours?

So it seems to me they both cancel out. By the way I think playing Vanderbilt, Kentucky yearly is not much better than any in BE. That should be TWO guarantee wins for Spurrier yearly.

[Bull Dozer]

Miami also is located directly in the biggest epicenter of football talent on the planet that's a pretty bad comparison.  Especially since they can sell the "stay home and do it for your community tag" which no one other than FIU could even try to say.  

Just because we are in FL is not enough there are already 3 instate entrenched powers that ALWAYS get first pick of the litter, then the out of state big boys come (OSU, OU, USC, Michigan, UGA, LSU etc) then the middle tier teams like USF and other out of state schools get to fight over the left overs.  Also what do we have to sell to recruits other than playing time and staying in state?  Draft picks (we are dead last in the BE in draft picks since we came into the conference), nope, great facilities, nope, Championships, nope, winning tradition, nope, huge fan base with tons of support, nope.  All of those things matter to recruits especially the draft picks and championships all we have to sell realistically for good recruits who have a good offer list is staying close to home and the possibility of early playing time.   We have far less to offer than than many here think and if establishing a conference winning football program in FL was soooooooo easy then UCF would not be where they are now, FAU and FIU would be in better situations than they are now, and the state would have more football programs than it does now.  Sorry but being in FL and being in a BCS conference is not enough.  

Look at our surrounding counties. I think you could build an all star team out of the talent in this area. There are more 3 and 4 star players in hillsborough county than there are in the entire states of west virginia, ny and connecticut combined. whose fault is it that they have more players drafted?

Miami once had no tradition, draft picks, championships, etc.  same with every other program in this state

You come up with every excuse why we can't compete in the BE.

how about a super bowl stadium with the 2nd largest crowds in our conference? how about facilities good enough for a super bowl champion pittsburgh steelers to use? new athletic center? multiple practice fields? new nutrition center and weight rooms?

when will we have enough to compete in our own conference?

Guess what those kids in the surrounding counties have the option of going to any school in the country and often do.  EVERYONE in college football recruits Florida the kids have more choices than you are making it sound like.  As for what UM did down in Miami there were a lot of factors that lead to their rise and part of it was the surrounding community having a chance to do something positive for itself for the first time in a VERY long time and they united and built that program.  Also Pitt Cincy etc recruit a region we recruit Basically Florida and southern GA and THAT'S it due to our small recruiting budget.  Is is possible to build a team soley off of FL kids and win titles, yes, but you better **** sure get the top flight kids if you want to do that, and at this state of USF's development there is ZERO reason for most kids with that kind of talent to choose USF.  We will win a battler here or there (Giddens) but it is not the norm or what is needed.   

West Virginia has Draft picks, better facilities, more traidition, a bigger and better fan base, conference titles, and a load of things we don't have, same with Pitt.  Hell Uconn's facilities make ours look like a high school.   

As for our facilities being used for the super bowl there really is very little around here that could have been used so it was more out of necessity than praise for our facilities.  Our facilities are FAR from impressive especially when compared to our conference mates and especially compared to all of the more elite programs that come and cherry pick in FL.  Our facilities are nice for what we paid for them but they still pale in comparison with most of the teams in our conference, the big 3, and all the states that come and cherry pick FL in recruiting.  If you think our facilities are on that level it tells me you have never seen the facilities at some of these schools we recruit against.  The simple fact that we lack a dining hall should show you how far behind we are, if you can't control a players diet directly then you are only giving them about half the potential of a kid who can strength train and get what he needs from a planned and controlled diet.  You think its a coincidence that Selvie had so much problems putting on weight?  Yes we got the little supplement bar and that's nice and all but we still have a long way to go. 

You have unreal expectations of what a middle of the pack BE team should be doing especially one with so little resources.  Im not of the opinion that CJL has a life time pass (he should be kept till the end of his contract and then axed if things don't improve) but he has made this thing work with a shoe string budget and got us to the BCS conference and recruiting has been on an upswing even with the lack of resources at his disposal.  Let's not act like hes Ron Zook at UF and running a program into the ground with unlimited resources. 

[Bull94]

Miami also is located directly in the biggest epicenter of football talent on the planet that's a pretty bad comparison.  Especially since they can sell the "stay home and do it for your community tag" which no one other than FIU could even try to say.  

Just because we are in FL is not enough there are already 3 instate entrenched powers that ALWAYS get first pick of the litter, then the out of state big boys come (OSU, OU, USC, Michigan, UGA, LSU etc) then the middle tier teams like USF and other out of state schools get to fight over the left overs.  Also what do we have to sell to recruits other than playing time and staying in state?  Draft picks (we are dead last in the BE in draft picks since we came into the conference), nope, great facilities, nope, Championships, nope, winning tradition, nope, huge fan base with tons of support, nope.  All of those things matter to recruits especially the draft picks and championships all we have to sell realistically for good recruits who have a good offer list is staying close to home and the possibility of early playing time.   We have far less to offer than than many here think and if establishing a conference winning football program in FL was soooooooo easy then UCF would not be where they are now, FAU and FIU would be in better situations than they are now, and the state would have more football programs than it does now.  Sorry but being in FL and being in a BCS conference is not enough.  

Look at our surrounding counties. I think you could build an all star team out of the talent in this area. There are more 3 and 4 star players in hillsborough county than there are in the entire states of west virginia, ny and connecticut combined. whose fault is it that they have more players drafted?

Miami once had no tradition, draft picks, championships, etc.  same with every other program in this state

You come up with every excuse why we can't compete in the BE.

how about a super bowl stadium with the 2nd largest crowds in our conference? how about facilities good enough for a super bowl champion pittsburgh steelers to use? new athletic center? multiple practice fields? new nutrition center and weight rooms?

when will we have enough to compete in our own conference?

Guess what those kids in the surrounding counties have the option of going to any school in the country and often do.  EVERYONE in college football recruits Florida the kids have more choices than you are making it sound like.  As for what UM did down in Miami there were a lot of factors that lead to their rise and part of it was the surrounding community having a chance to do something positive for itself for the first time in a VERY long time and they united and built that program.  Also Pitt Cincy etc recruit a region we recruit Basically Florida and southern GA and THAT'S it due to our small recruiting budget.  Is is possible to build a team soley off of FL kids and win titles, yes, but you better **** sure get the top flight kids if you want to do that, and at this state of USF's development there is ZERO reason for most kids with that kind of talent to choose USF.  We will win a battler here or there (Giddens) but it is not the norm or what is needed.     

West Virginia has Draft picks, better facilities, more traidition, a bigger and better fan base, conference titles, and a load of things we don't have, same with Pitt.  Hell Uconn's facilities make ours look like a high school.     

As for our facilities being used for the super bowl there really is very little around here that could have been used so it was more out of necessity than praise for our facilities.  Our facilities are FAR from impressive especially when compared to our conference mates and especially compared to all of the more elite programs that come and cherry pick in FL.  Our facilities are nice for what we paid for them but they still pale in comparison with most of the teams in our conference, the big 3, and all the states that come and cherry pick FL in recruiting.  If you think our facilities are on that level it tells me you have never seen the facilities at some of these schools we recruit against.  The simple fact that we lack a dining hall should show you how far behind we are, if you can't control a players diet directly then you are only giving them about half the potential of a kid who can strength train and get what he needs from a planned and controlled diet.  You think its a coincidence that Selvie had so much problems putting on weight?  Yes we got the little supplement bar and that's nice and all but we still have a long way to go. 

You have unreal expectations of what a middle of the pack BE team should be doing especially one with so little resources.  Im not of the opinion that CJL has a life time pass (he should be kept till the end of his contract and then axed if things don't improve) but he has made this thing work with a shoe string budget and got us to the BCS conference and recruiting has been on an upswing even with the lack of resources at his disposal.  Let's not act like hes Ron Zook at UF and running a program into the ground with unlimited resources. 

of course some of them can go to any school they want but not all of them can. the fact remains we are in the middle of all this talent and yet UConn produces more NFL talent. Their stud RB is #2 on the colts now with our former RB backing him up. Of course Leavitt felt there was no need for a future NFL talent to have a starting position in our backfield so he transferred.

I'm not talking about competing with the UFs of the world. I'm talking of competing with the Pitt,Cincy,Cuse,WVU,etc of the world. You can't tell me a local kid will pick one of those schools over us because of their facilities. Hell we have kids now picking us over Miami, UF,etc and we have had plenty in the past choose us over AU, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. in spite of our "terrible" facilities and lack of a dining hall.

So we need a dining hall to put players on a diet plan?? You can't regulate what they eat? Selvie can't gain weight because we have no dining hall?? seriously??

We have ranked ahead of Cincy, TCU and Boise State every year for the last 4 years in recruiting so evidently rivals thinks we get decent talent in here. Those teams were a combined 36-0 this year.

[Bull Dozer]

Kid's choose them over us for a myriad of reasons not just the facilities.  Their history, more NFL draft picks, better facilities, coaches who have coached in the NFL (The Stache),  more recognizable school (not just football but overall) all we have to offer is a chance to be able to play close to home and early PT, THAT'S it.  Let's not even get started on academics between us and the other schools in the conference.  As for Boise Cinci, and TCU lets take a look shall we.  Boise plays one MAYBE 2 meaningful games a year and besides that a bunch of nobodies, that sounds like a perfect CJL scenario to me beat cup cakes and get your team ready to run through a wall for 2 games a year.  Also their BCS win against OU that everyone fell in love with them was against a OU team without it's starting QB.  TCU is located in Texas which produces just as much talent as Florida if not more (depends on the year), has produced some very good NFL players including LT2, they also have some history behind their program, where we have none.  Cinci is located in another GREAT football state, Ohio, which produces tons of talented kids every year and as far as quality high school ball goes they are right there behind the big 3 (FL, Ca, and TX), they are a nationally known school (thanks to their basketball team under Huggy), and they made a GREAT hire in Kelly.  Before Kelly got there they were also ran who got into the BE due to their basketball program. 

Also what kids did we beat out Bama for that had legit offers?  Ford was a prep school kid who wasn't a high priority for Saban and the new incoming staff, Taylor came home due to personal issues. 

Also yes we need players to be on a diet plan nutrition has a large part in what you are able to take away from a strength program.  All those schools that you name above that recruits go to over us have dining facilities of some way shape or form for their athletes.  Also ESPN the mag did a feature on Selvie and his diet and how much he ate and in that article it talks about him eating what he chose from Andros, a meal with his family etc.  What you find in a normal college cafe is not what is needed to get the most out of a serious strength program.  What you put into your body before and after a work out is almost as important as the work you do in the weight room and your gains in strength and size will be severely limited with an improper or inadequate diet.  You trying to say that diet and what you eat is no important to your strength training results and physical development is like saying what kind of gas you put in a high performance car doesn't matter.  It's pure rubbish. 

Also we just now got the nutrition bar, just think about that for a minute.  We just now got a bar that will allow our kids to get the proper supplements for their bodies, something that is common as hell at most div 1 schools let alone BCS conferences. 

Sorry but being in Florida does not a great program make, if that was true then UCF would have been a good program a long time ago and prolly would have went to the BE ahead of us.     

[SRQ]

still no names given as to who you want as replacement.  CJL is better than coach nameless!