For those thinking changing coaches will help

[E.T.]

USF earned the #2 ranking ... the "earned" our way out of it.

[Guest Sunburned]

Look at a couple of  Big East replacement coaches.

Cincinnati - Brian Kelly: 33-6  Overall; 17-4 Big East

West Virginia - Bill Stewart: 18-7 Overall; 10-4 Big East

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Jim Leavitt - Conference years - USA/BE - 2003/2009

50-35 Overall;  25-26 Conference play;  8-8  CUSA; 17-18 BE

Take out the 1-AA games and Leavitt's overall record looks worse.

[Bull94]

programs that are committed to winning fire coaches for mediocre results.

Does that mean they make the right hire every time? No but if they are committed to winning then they will continue to try and get better. I just want to know that our administration is committed to winning. If they make a bad hire then so be it. Go out and try again.

UF

Ron Zook 23-15 (16-8)

Urban Meyer 56-10 (34-9)

BTW you forgot to mention Saban's record 32-8

Hell FSU just forced out their legendary coach that won 2 NC, 14 straight years of top 5 finishes, and 26 straight bowl games.

But they didn't hire Zook because they fired their previous coach. It wasn't their commitment to winning that made Zook the HC.

In any event, apples to oranges here. UF can fire Zook and go out and hire a proven winner, no matter what the cost. USF doesn't have that kind of money. Apples to Apples...

Look at BGSU since Meyer left, Iowa was a good comparison, UL since Petrino left, WVU without Rodriguez, etc. Except for BGSU, the others have more money than us. It's not like we force CJL out and end up with a coach like Nick Saban. If CJL goes, we're looking at a mid-major guy that hasn't had a lot of success, but is highly thought of, or a coordinator with no HC experience. Thats all we can afford.

Then, new, unproven coach has to come in, establish recruiting ties, and continue winning in order to try and get solid recruits. IF the replacement ends up being good, we would have a good first year, down 3-4 years, then maybe improve from where we are today...maybe.

I don't see getting rid of Leavitt right as we are starting to win some recruiting battles. Thats just me, but it seems like it would likely set the program back.

exactly my point. they fired Zook for what they considered to be mediocre results and hired a far superior coach because they were committed to winning. They had to hire Zook(or any coach) because Spurrier left.

I understand we are in a different position and we don't have the scratch to fire Leavitt. I'm not advocating that now. I think we give him 2 more years to prove he can coach at this level.

I'm only showing ET that his examples are wrong as those programs above fired coaches and then brought in more successful coaches (or in NDs case they brought in coaches just as mediocre as the previous coach).

None of the examples he uses proves that a program is worse off when firing a mediocre coach.

Those examples you use(BGSU,WVU,UofL) aren't consistent with what I'm saying. They didn't fire their successful coaches(Meyer, Petrino, RRod). They left on their own.

It's much tougher to replace a successful coach that moves on then it is to replace a mediocre coach that you fire.

[E.T.]

...

People here have to stop thinking that USF is like Florida, Texas, and Ohio State... and start comparing the Bulls to Northwestern, South Carolina, Oregon State, etc.

Agree ... we are an average program. FACT. We are building a program along with fans and donors.

Look at UF before the '90's. They had a VERY strong fan base and never won a conference championship.

I'm a realist.

[Bull94]

programs that are committed to winning fire coaches for mediocre results.

Actually, that is not entirely true.

Programs that are USED TO WINNING fire coaches when they don't restore past glories.

Programs that have never won anything don't fire coaches who take them to the same level time after time.

People here have to stop thinking that USF is like Florida, Texas, and Ohio State... and start comparing the Bulls to Northwestern, South Carolina, Oregon State, etc.

This is why that #2 ranking was a curse and a blessing.  Some people here have obviously used that or something else to tell them that we should be on that kind of level.  They also usually think that we have the most talent in the conference and that our facilities are just as good as the other teams in our conferenc, both of which are wrong.  I think we have former fans of other winning programs (more than likely in state programs) trying to project the expectations of their former team onto USF.  Some people seem to just ignore USF's lack of resources (facilites & money) and think we should just become the next FSU of the 90's, Miami of the 80's just because we are a team in FL in a BCS conference when that one fact alone cannot overcome all of the short comings we currently have.  Once we get the dining hall and new athletics district, and new practice fields things we will be in a much better situation but some people just don't realize the resources gap that we have to over come. 

this is the biggest ******** myth ever. We have the same revenue for football as Cincy. We have far superior facilities as they practice in their own stadium. Their coach made $300k less than ours this year. They have won our conference for 2 years straight and went undefeated. I'm not expecting to beat Texas, UF, etc. I want to win the BE which we should be more than competitive in. Excuses are for losers.

[Guest Sunburned]

 Once we get the dining hall and new athletics district, and new practice fields things we will be in a much better situation but some people just don't realize the resources gap that we have to over come. 

Cincinnati's  lack of a practice field, didn't stop Brian Kelly from winning in the Big East.  His record 33-6 Overall and 17-4 in the Big East.

What USF is lacking is a head coach who has the skill set to win in the Big East.

[Bull Dozer]

programs that are committed to winning fire coaches for mediocre results.

Actually, that is not entirely true.

Programs that are USED TO WINNING fire coaches when they don't restore past glories.

Programs that have never won anything don't fire coaches who take them to the same level time after time.

People here have to stop thinking that USF is like Florida, Texas, and Ohio State... and start comparing the Bulls to Northwestern, South Carolina, Oregon State, etc.

This is why that #2 ranking was a curse and a blessing.  Some people here have obviously used that or something else to tell them that we should be on that kind of level.  They also usually think that we have the most talent in the conference and that our facilities are just as good as the other teams in our conferenc, both of which are wrong.  I think we have former fans of other winning programs (more than likely in state programs) trying to project the expectations of their former team onto USF.  Some people seem to just ignore USF's lack of resources (facilites & money) and think we should just become the next FSU of the 90's, Miami of the 80's just because we are a team in FL in a BCS conference when that one fact alone cannot overcome all of the short comings we currently have.  Once we get the dining hall and new athletics district, and new practice fields things we will be in a much better situation but some people just don't realize the resources gap that we have to over come. 

this is the biggest ******** myth ever. We have the same revenue for football as Cincy. We have far superior facilities as they practice in their own stadium. Their coach made $300k less than ours this year. They have won our conference for 2 years straight and went undefeated. I'm not expecting to beat Texas, UF, etc. I want to win the BE which we should be more than competitive in. Excuses are for losers.

Cincy is the one outlier in the conference all of the other teams in the conference trump us in facilites and just about everything else.  Cincy hit a gold mine in Kelly and i whole heartedly expect them to slide now that he's gone.  People LOVE to use Cincy as their argument but forget that there are more teams than just cincy in our conference.  Can it be done if you find a GREAT coach like Kelly? Yes it can, now quick tell me who that is and please make it an affordable option so it's realistic. 

[Bull94]

programs that are committed to winning fire coaches for mediocre results.

Actually, that is not entirely true.

Programs that are USED TO WINNING fire coaches when they don't restore past glories.

Programs that have never won anything don't fire coaches who take them to the same level time after time.

People here have to stop thinking that USF is like Florida, Texas, and Ohio State... and start comparing the Bulls to Northwestern, South Carolina, Oregon State, etc.

I never thought we were like them. I would like to think we should emulate them though because they are successful. South Carolina has never won their conference. If you're happy with that then good for you.

there is no reason why we can't win our conference every once in awhile. We are not in the big 12, sec or big 10.

We are not competing with the OSU,UF,Texas for our conference. We are competing with cincy, wvu, etc.

there are plenty of programs that fire their coaches from lesser conferences for not being able to compete within their own conference. it happens every year.

Western Kentucky fired their coach.Akron fired their coach. Louisiana Monroe fired their coach.Marshal fired their coach.Memphis fired their coach. UNLV fired their coach. These are all this year at lesser programs.

[E.T.]

Regarding Kelly, when he as hired by Cincy ... who was excited in Cincy ? He was a good coach from a MAC team.

Probably the same excitement from L'ville when they hired Kragthorpe (sp?) from Tulsa.

You're rolling the dice.

We have a strong foundation and a change would set us back.

[Bull94]

programs that are committed to winning fire coaches for mediocre results.

Actually, that is not entirely true.

Programs that are USED TO WINNING fire coaches when they don't restore past glories.

Programs that have never won anything don't fire coaches who take them to the same level time after time.

People here have to stop thinking that USF is like Florida, Texas, and Ohio State... and start comparing the Bulls to Northwestern, South Carolina, Oregon State, etc.

This is why that #2 ranking was a curse and a blessing.  Some people here have obviously used that or something else to tell them that we should be on that kind of level.  They also usually think that we have the most talent in the conference and that our facilities are just as good as the other teams in our conferenc, both of which are wrong.  I think we have former fans of other winning programs (more than likely in state programs) trying to project the expectations of their former team onto USF.  Some people seem to just ignore USF's lack of resources (facilites & money) and think we should just become the next FSU of the 90's, Miami of the 80's just because we are a team in FL in a BCS conference when that one fact alone cannot overcome all of the short comings we currently have.  Once we get the dining hall and new athletics district, and new practice fields things we will be in a much better situation but some people just don't realize the resources gap that we have to over come. 

this is the biggest ******** myth ever. We have the same revenue for football as Cincy. We have far superior facilities as they practice in their own stadium. Their coach made $300k less than ours this year. They have won our conference for 2 years straight and went undefeated. I'm not expecting to beat Texas, UF, etc. I want to win the BE which we should be more than competitive in. Excuses are for losers.

Cincy is the one outlier in the conference all of the other teams in the conference trump us in facilites and just about everything else.  Cincy hit a gold mine in Kelly and i whole heartedly expect them to slide now that he's gone.  People LOVE to use Cincy as their argument but forget that there are more teams than just cincy in our conference.  Can it be done if you find a GREAT coach like Kelly? Yes it can, now quick tell me who that is and please make it an affordable option so it's realistic.   

an outlier in an 8 team conference? was Miami an outlier when they were winning the BE and NCs? They had the worst facilities afterall.

One thing we have over every other conference member is location.Nobody is located in a state that ranks as one of the top 3 for recruiting in the country besides us. I'd be amazed if NY,WVU and connecticut rank in the top 40 states for recruiting.

Tell me how many Florida players there are on every roster in the BE? Do you think it's easy to recruit to WVU? How about upstate NY? Or Connecticut?

Do you think those players go for the dining hall?I don't give a **** about dining halls and i bet most recruits don't.