Another one to be announced soon

[bigums]

The BOG already has alternate test plans to replace the CLAST. The 2.5 GPA for waiver has been in effect all along and is probably the most common way that the CLAS requirement is met by students. The new guidelines may actually make it easier for students. CLAST was defunded with the new budget, so any issues will start to pop up as soon as the new FY starts (July 1).

The BOG does not have a alternate test in the works to replace the CLAST, don't believe me then check with the Testing Office at USF. There are no more paper and pencil tests remaining and I believe they only have a few computer CLAST tests left (1 or two) before its kaput.

The new guidelines suck because if you get lower then a B/C ratio in either English 1-2 or Math 1-2 then instead of taking a $38.00 test (1 day) before you graduate you have to retake a $400.00 course (1 semester).

However under NCAA regulations athletes are not allowed to retake a course for a grade forgiveness and keep their eligibility.

Where did you get that idea?

A recent meeting on campus...

You're wrong on both counts. There will be alternative test options. If you press the Testing Center, they may even tell you which ones have been discussed at the state level. The one that's getting the most play may be considered easier and can be taken more often than the CLAST was allowed (31 days between attempts). The 2.5 gpa and course retakes have ALWAYS been an option to get an exemption. That's not new, just the lack of a test.

As for grade forgiveness, that's completely untrue about student athletes. Whoever gave you that info is misinformed at the least, and if they are giving academic advice to students in any capacity, they're dangerous. The only time repeats are an issue is if they are barely meeting the minimum hours progress to degree. A retaken course can't be counted twice towards the hours requirement.

[Mama_Bull]

I have NO doubt that if Joyer is turned down by USF after receiving NCAA clearance, that he will be a good student and graduate from some other BCS conference university.  

Based on what?

Based on what I've read about his character and hard work. I've never heard anything negative that would lead me to believe otherwise.

Perhaps, he didn't get very good grades during his senior year while trying to win state titles in Weight Lifting and Shot Put. if so, that had more to do with being stretched to thin than being lazy or unintelligent.

He comes from a very good family who mostly graduated from USF.  

[gobulls83]

Perhaps, he didn't get very good grades during his senior year while trying to win state titles in Weight Lifting and Shot Put. if so, that had more to do with being stretched to thin than being lazy or unintelligent.

Well the workload isn't about to get any lighter if he plays football at USF. But I want to make clear: I'm not saying he's unintelligent. Hell, I don't know anything about him and won't until USF decides if he deserves to be admitted or not.

He comes from a very good family who mostly graduated from USF.  

See, I didn't know this, and I would hope that is something that is taken into consideration when his admission comes up. For now, I'll defer comment on this particular case until the fall, when we know if he makes it here or not.

I still believe the committee is a good idea, however, and that's what this conversation has been about because the original poster was wrong about the nature of this situation. And I will also reiterate my agreement with all the calls that more details about the whole process should be made public so we can settle this debate once and for all.

[CousinRicky]

I have NO doubt that if Joyer is turned down by USF after receiving NCAA clearance, that he will be a good student and graduate from some other BCS conference university.  

Based on what?

Also, as you said there, Joyer has not yet been rejected by USF. The starter of this thread obviously heard a rumor and overstated the situation.

It wasn't a rumor, it was from the family.  When I posted he had not been cleared and could not move into the dorm or start classes next week.  Clearance came, unexpectedly, today.  USF has put some conditions on his entry even with the clearance, it seems, and the family has decisions to make.  I screwed up in starting this post, but it was devastating news at the time.

[gobulls83]

I have NO doubt that if Joyer is turned down by USF after receiving NCAA clearance, that he will be a good student and graduate from some other BCS conference university.  

Based on what?

Also, as you said there, Joyer has not yet been rejected by USF. The starter of this thread obviously heard a rumor and overstated the situation.

It wasn't a rumor, it was from the family.  When I posted he had not been cleared and could not move into the dorm or start classes next week.  Clearance came, unexpectedly, today.  USF has put some conditions on his entry even with the clearance, it seems, and the family has decisions to make.  I screwed up in starting this post, but it was devastating news at the time.

I'm sorry, I went on and said it that way a second time and I didn't mean to be pointing fingers. Mistakes happen.

But you should use a little more caution next time.

[Cow Pie]

You're wrong on both counts. There will be alternative test options. If you press the Testing Center, they may even tell you which ones have been discussed at the state level. The one that's getting the most play may be considered easier and can be taken more often than the CLAST was allowed (31 days between attempts).

I don't know where you are coming up with these assumptions but there is nothing in thw works that will replace the CLAST Test, there are other tests in the pipeline that may be added to the USF Testing Center's list of tests that are offered (FTCA for example) but there is nothing in the works that will replace the CLAST Test, to state so is mere speculation and you will need to submit a link to prove otherwise.

The 2.5 gpa and course retakes have ALWAYS been an option to get an exemption. That's not new, just the lack of a test.

Yes that is true but what your glazing over is that before students had the option of taking a $38.00 CLAST Test instead of taking the $400.00+ course retake option. How is this any better for the student body?

As for grade forgiveness, that's completely untrue about student athletes. Whoever gave you that info is misinformed at the least, and if they are giving academic advice to students in any capacity, they're dangerous. The only time repeats are an issue is if they are barely meeting the minimum hours progress to degree. A retaken course can't be counted twice towards the hours requirement.

I got that information from the horses mouth... an Administrator at USF whom works closely with Athletics... your facts are correct for a regular student but the NCAA regulations according to my source state that retakes of certain courses (namely English 1/2 and Math 1/2) are a no-no.

[Bullpride08]

If we can't get a kid like this through USF then either our support system is poor or the kid's work ethic is so bad that we shouldn't be recruiting him in the first place!

The second half of this statement is <b>exactly</b> the principle the committee was created to enforce. And when they decide the student doesn't warrant taking a chance on and rejecting them, you come here and cry because the university won't admit a student to whom maintaining a 2.5 GPA in <i>high school</i> is a difficult task.

No it's not.  If a kid can get past the NCAA Clearinghouse than you should be recruiting him.  The question that comes into play is on borderline situations, and Ruger is suggesting that with all the assistance USF provides it's highly unlikely he'll flunk out. 

A lot of fans love to cite APR in defense of the committee, but the APR is based on recent graduates, and classes enrolled 4-5 years ago.  Many of those players that departed did so because of legal issues (criminal), and playing time.  In recent years USF has had very, very few academic casualties...i.e. players dropping out, losing enrollment because of flunking, kicked off or suspended due to academics.  The APR situation needs to be controlled, but they must be careful a crusaded doesn't ensue, and this used as a useless battlecry by academia to strike a blow to athletics.  For the most part 75% of the kids that sign go after degrees and pursue academics strictly as a means to stay eligible-- at least the type of kids BCS schools recruit.  So the point is, most schools, can keep most of those players eligible, and maintain their APR with good tutoring, studyhalls, monitoring, special selections of majors.  The truth is the truth, and to over amplify the APR, and  the results become this undue mockery of an academic review process for football players.  Well that's a joke and overkill.

BTW, I would personally be rather outraged if the committee DIDN'T select Kamron Joyer.  He is a legacy with a number of USF grads in his family, a very good kid, and his grades and core classes were not bad, not to mention he is a local kid with a mother that is a High School Administrator.  It should take a review committee just a few minutes to review the mitigating circumstances here and realize that Joyer is way worth the risk.

[bigums]

You're wrong on both counts. There will be alternative test options. If you press the Testing Center, they may even tell you which ones have been discussed at the state level. The one that's getting the most play may be considered easier and can be taken more often than the CLAST was allowed (31 days between attempts).

I don't know where you are coming up with these assumptions but there is nothing in thw works that will replace the CLAST Test, there are other tests in the pipeline that may be added to the USF Testing Center's list of tests that are offered (FTCA for example) but there is nothing in the works that will replace the CLAST Test, to state so is mere speculation and you will need to submit a link to prove otherwise.

The 2.5 gpa and course retakes have ALWAYS been an option to get an exemption. That's not new, just the lack of a test.

Yes that is true but what your glazing over is that before students had the option of taking a $38.00 CLAST Test instead of taking the $400.00+ course retake option. How is this any better for the student body?

As for grade forgiveness, that's completely untrue about student athletes. Whoever gave you that info is misinformed at the least, and if they are giving academic advice to students in any capacity, they're dangerous. The only time repeats are an issue is if they are barely meeting the minimum hours progress to degree. A retaken course can't be counted twice towards the hours requirement.

I got that information from the horses mouth... an Administrator at USF whom works closely with Athletics... your facts are correct for a regular student but the NCAA regulations according to my source state that retakes of certain courses (namely English 1/2 and Math 1/2) are a no-no.

I don't want to ruin the thread with a pissing match. I'm not assuming anything; these are facts. An existing test will be used to meet the CLAS requirement going forward and student athletes repeat courses (including ENC and Math) and use grade forgiveness at USF all the time.

[Cow Pie]

I don't want to ruin the thread with a pissing match. I'm not assuming anything; these are facts. An existing test will be used to meet the CLAS requirement going forward and student athletes repeat courses (including ENC and Math) and use grade forgiveness at USF all the time.

I'm not having a pissing match with you because you have yet to provide a link to anything to back up your claim let alone explain how you came to your conclusion...

:link

[Omniscientbull]

Ricky - What do you mean by "USF has put some conditions on his entry even with the clearance?  What types of restrictions?  For example, does he have to take a summer class and get a certain grade?

]