Another one to be announced soon

[Ruger7mmmag]

Just wait till it hits someone in a position where we are not deep and see how you feel about this when these guys start suiting up for other programs immediately.

Would you rather our APR suffer to the point where we start losing scholarships? Yes, it ***** when we lose players to academics, but that is not the fault of the committee.

We are not losing kids to academics in these cases.  They are cleared and we're saying we don't believe they have what it takes to make it if we let them in.  If a kid can't grow and prosper being given tutors, mandatory study hall etc, it's due to a lack of work ethic considering the types of majors we can put these guys in that hardly require anything to walk out the door other than effort.

If we can't get a kid like this through USF then either our support system is poor or the kid's work ethic is so bad that we shouldn't be recruiting him in the first place!

That's my point.  The way this system is operating is insane on many levels.  When a kid verbals, IMMEDIATELY his file should go to the committee for review.  Right now, you could pull the transcripts of the guys we have commitments from and see where they stand and what kind of students they are.  At which point we need to tell them, "Hey, if you're coming here, you need to get your GPA to "x" and your test score to "x".  If they can't do that or aren't willing, then their verbal is useless anyway.

If you think this is too much hassle, then that's why they have the NCAA clearinghouse and why most programs use that as their standard on whether they let guys in or not. 

But offering schollies, signing LOIs and then getting yanked weeks or days before you actually arrive on campus is bad business.  Especially when that same kid can pick up the phone and be in classes at another D1 program and be playing THIS YEAR.

What if 15 guys got DQed by this committee and they all were cleared by the NCAA?  What would we be saying then?

[gobulls83]

If we can't get a kid like this through USF then either our support system is poor or the kid's work ethic is so bad that we shouldn't be recruiting him in the first place!

The second half of this statement is <b>exactly</b> the principle the committee was created to enforce. And when they decide the student doesn't warrant taking a chance on and rejecting them, you come here and cry because the university won't admit a student to whom maintaining a 2.5 GPA in <i>high school</i> is a difficult task.

[Cow Pie]

The BOG already has alternate test plans to replace the CLAST. The 2.5 GPA for waiver has been in effect all along and is probably the most common way that the CLAS requirement is met by students. The new guidelines may actually make it easier for students. CLAST was defunded with the new budget, so any issues will start to pop up as soon as the new FY starts (July 1).

The BOG does not have a alternate test in the works to replace the CLAST, don't believe me then check with the Testing Office at USF. There are no more paper and pencil tests remaining and I believe they only have a few computer CLAST tests left (1 or two) before its kaput.

The new guidelines suck because if you get lower then a B/C ratio in either English 1-2 or Math 1-2 then instead of taking a $38.00 test (1 day) before you graduate you have to retake a $400.00 course (1 semester).

However under NCAA regulations athletes are not allowed to retake a course for a grade forgiveness and keep their eligibility.

Where did you get that idea?

A recent meeting on campus where this issue came up from a verified source.

As far as student athlete grades I'm personally at odds with the system but don't know what I would do to fix it.

[Ruger7mmmag]

If we can't get a kid like this through USF then either our support system is poor or the kid's work ethic is so bad that we shouldn't be recruiting him in the first place!

The second half of this statement is <b>exactly</b> the principle the committee was created to enforce. And when they decide the student doesn't warrant taking a chance on and rejecting them, you come here and cry because the university won't admit a student to whom maintaining a 2.5 GPA in <i>high school</i> is a difficult task.

They're making these choices DAYS BEFORE THEY STEP FOOT ON CAMPUS!

If we are that worried about a kid then we shouldn't be wasting a schollie on him MONTHS ago let alone putting in over a YEAR recruiting him!  The cost in these cases isn't just the recruit you lose here, it's the cost of the recruit we missed not recruiting while we were wasting time on a kid that will never see the football field for USF.  Not too mention it's better not to offer a kid PR/recruiting wise than the perception these situations will create on the recruiting trail.

One kid?  You can excuse that.  But when we start knocking out multiple kids who can easily sign and play at another D1 school; this WILL impact future recruiting.  Especially for a program like ours who is young and already against all odds when going head to head against the Miami, Florida States and Floridas of this world. The worst part of it is, the way it's being done, it allows us no chance to correct the situation.  We're at this point stuck.  

Seriously, if this knocked out 10 kids, do you honestly think there are 10 kids out there, available RIGHT NOW, who throw out the academics, but athletically could even be worth offering at this point?  

[Mama_Bull]

It's a good thing that the academic committee wasn't in existence when Mike Ford came to USF. Like Thornton, Mike went to Hargrave to prep for college, but he was accepted and made the academic honor roll as a freshman.

Unlike Thornton and Ford, I never heard that K Joyer was even an academic risk. Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he was a hard working and very dedicated student athlete in HS. Sometimes NCAA clearance just takes longer for some people.

[gobulls83]

It's a good thing that the academic committee wasn't in existence when Mike Ford came to USF.

That's a great point if you're willing to assume Mike Ford wouldn't have been admitted by the committee. I don't know how you can make that kind of assumption, though, given that the committee doesn't even explain how or why it rejects students.

I don't think the committee should have one set standard in terms of GPA, etc, because it's clear the intent of it is to decide which among a bunch of students who would not normally be qualified to attend the university is a good enough student to be likely to graduate. That's done by judgment of work ethic, I'm assuming some kind of argument or testimonial by the student or on the student's behalf, study of transcripts, etc. However, I do agree that if what I just said is the case, it should be explained publicly (it should be explained publicly no matter what the procedure is).

I also know the timing sucks, but again, we don't know the whole story. Regardless, all of this is unrelated to Ruger7mmmag claiming that USF shouldn't be recruiting academically questionable athletes, and complaining about a committee reminding the football team (and other sports) that it should not be recruiting questionable athletes (well that actually hasn't happened yet in this particular case). It's absurd - if he is deemed academically unqualified by the university, he shouldn't attend the university. It's as simple as that, and I don't know how that can be blasted so severely.

If anything, he should be angry at Leavitt for targeting such academically questionable athletes.

[TBBull717]

Just wait till it hits someone in a position where we are not deep and see how you feel about this when these guys start suiting up for other programs immediately.

Would you rather our APR suffer to the point where we start losing scholarships? Yes, it ***** when we lose players to academics, but that is not the fault of the committee.

We are not losing kids to academics in these cases.  They are cleared and we're saying we don't believe they have what it takes to make it if we let them in.  If a kid can't grow and prosper being given tutors, mandatory study hall etc, it's due to a lack of work ethic considering the types of majors we can put these guys in that hardly require anything to walk out the door other than effort.

If we can't get a kid like this through USF then either our support system is poor or the kid's work ethic is so bad that we shouldn't be recruiting him in the first place!

That's my point.  The way this system is operating is insane on many levels.  When a kid verbals, IMMEDIATELY his file should go to the committee for review.  Right now, you could pull the transcripts of the guys we have commitments from and see where they stand and what kind of students they are.  At which point we need to tell them, "Hey, if you're coming here, you need to get your GPA to "x" and your test score to "x".  If they can't do that or aren't willing, then their verbal is useless anyway.

If you think this is too much hassle, then that's why they have the NCAA clearinghouse and why most programs use that as their standard on whether they let guys in or not. 

But offering schollies, signing LOIs and then getting yanked weeks or days before you actually arrive on campus is bad business.  Especially when that same kid can pick up the phone and be in classes at another D1 program and be playing THIS YEAR

What if 15 guys got DQed by this committee and they all were cleared by the NCAA?  What would we be saying then?

Although the player in question is not making the calls. Rest assured, a couple of Big10 schools are calling.

[Mama_Bull]

It's a good thing that the academic committee wasn't in existence when Mike Ford came to USF.

That's a great point if you're willing to assume Mike Ford wouldn't have been admitted by the committee. I don't know how you can make that kind of assumption, though, given that the committee doesn't even explain how or why it rejects students.

I can only go by what I read at the time about Mike Ford. He supposedly was denied admission to Bama because of academics before deciding on USF. In any event, he was certainly BORDERLINE and was only cleared by the NCAA after classes had already started that semester at USF. If that had happened like that today, I seriously doubt that Ford would be admitted.

Certainly J Buie could not have been admitted because he was a partial-qualifier and yet he got his degree at USF and is now in the NFL.

I have NO doubt that if Joyer is turned down by USF after receiving NCAA clearance, that he will be a good student and graduate from some other BCS conference university.  

[South_Florida_Flip]

Although the player in question is not making the calls. Rest assured, a couple of Big10 schools are calling.

Isn't that an NCAA violation?

[gobulls83]

I have NO doubt that if Joyer is turned down by USF after receiving NCAA clearance, that he will be a good student and graduate from some other BCS conference university.  

Based on what?

Also, as you said there, Joyer has not yet been rejected by USF. The starter of this thread obviously heard a rumor and overstated the situation.