Even an unbeaten Big East team [out of NC game]

[windbane]

I do think though, if Texas, USC, and Florida all have a good shot at passing them in the BCS if they can win convinvingly enough to move up in the human polls.

I doubt it, UL's computer average is #3 now.  If they beat Rutgers they'd pass Texas in the coaches poll (currently only 15 points down).  But whatever, I hope it doesn't matter and we beat them.

Those same computers had UL at 10 a week before.  Them being at #3 this week means d1ck.

Means they moved up 7 spots from 1 game, and if they won this week they'd make a run at #2 or #1 in the computer polls.  They don't have any cupcake games left to lower their SOS.

Thats your interpetation. But not only are the records of who you play a factor, but the records of the teams they played too. Too many factors go into them to say they will make a run at #1 or #2, especially when OSU/UM are at what .9 something. And UL isnt even to .8?

There are a lot of factors?  Ok.  Beating an undefeated team is going to help you a lot in every poll imaginable.  If there exists a poll where that does not help you, then it should be dropped.

UL went from 9th to 3rd in the computer average, and they are now .06 ahead of 4th place.  They are .05 behind OSU and .09 behind Michigan.  They went up .23 after beating WVU.  I'm thinking beating a similar team with a better SOS will improve their standing even more with the computers.  They would also finish passing Texas in the human polls and get a higher percentage of those votes (texas plays KSU).

UL is moving up on polls because they are playing other good teams and will continue to do so to keep up with the other teams.  No chance they get passed if they go undefeated.

[USFPDiddy]

I do think though, if Texas, USC, and Florida all have a good shot at passing them in the BCS if they can win convinvingly enough to move up in the human polls.

I doubt it, UL's computer average is #3 now.  If they beat Rutgers they'd pass Texas in the coaches poll (currently only 15 points down).  But whatever, I hope it doesn't matter and we beat them.

Those same computers had UL at 10 a week before.  Them being at #3 this week means d1ck.

Means they moved up 7 spots from 1 game, and if they won this week they'd make a run at #2 or #1 in the computer polls.  They don't have any cupcake games left to lower their SOS.

Thats your interpetation. But not only are the records of who you play a factor, but the records of the teams they played too. Too many factors go into them to say they will make a run at #1 or #2, especially when OSU/UM are at what .9 something. And UL isnt even to .8?

Historical BCS computers used 2/3 of SOS as opponents' records, and the other 1/3 as opponents' opponents.  If that is still in effect, there is absolutely no way beating a team with a winning record can hurt you unless your SOS is godly.  Since UL's SOS ISN'T, and they are STILL ranked #3, it's safe to say that getting wins vs winning teams would pull their SOS up.

And Gene can say whatever he wants.  That magic ohio state team had to hold off a 4th and 5 just to win by a touchdown.  That UF team with "such a hard schedule" beat Vanderbilt by what?  If you're going to call not-quite-bowl teams tough games, then 6 out of the BE's 7 league games are just that.  There is a counter argument floating around on ESPN from the dash, and it's a good read too.

You can pretend the SEC is actually a lot harder if you want.  The reality is though, that not one but just about EVERY SINGLE objective measure of SOS says that most teams in the top 10 are barely ahead of UL, WITH THE GAMES PLAYED THUS FAR.  UL has a tougher closing schedule than the other teams.

If UL wins out they go.  Then again, maybe there should be a playoff system.  After all, it's just too hard to get through conference play undefeated :.

[aly20xx]

ul will not play in the nc game because we will beat them (hopefully)

go bulls

[Joe]

I don't think a 1 loss Florida (who is the most likely team at THIS point) will jump Louisville unless Florida looks unbeleivable against South Carolina, FSU, and Auburn/Arkansas.

Texas and USC could be there too, but they need help.

The reason Wojo wrote this article is merely to piss on the BCS. If you have 2 undefeated teams...Michigan/OSU v. Louisville, there is no debate, and who gives a flying F about the other 4 games. If a team isn't included it's not destroying the sancity of the system.

If you want to see the REAL debate, watch out if Rutgers wins tomorrow, because there is no way that many are going to buy the fact that the worst team in college football history is deserving to play in the National Title game when 2 years ago they hadn't seen a bowl game since the 70s.

[Bullpride08]

I mentione d afew days ago, the media is going to make a case for UL not to be there so they CAN piss on the BCS again. Had it been WVU I might have bought into the argument (their schedule). However UL still tried to schedule tough, the fact that Miami and KSU aren't as good as they were in 2002-2003 when the games were scheduled isn't their fault.

I think most the fans at the other schools with 1 loss agree too. However, if the media takes off with it don't expect them to stay off the media's coat tails. I don't blame any 1 loss school puting their best case foward, as we would do the same thing if it came down to an undefeated team like BYU getting a title shot over a 1 loss Louisville or WVU.

If you wanna see it hit the fan have Rutgers win out.

I think you're right Joe and the case is already being made in the media and being said about UL right now.  Many pollsters don't believe that UL is the 2nd or 3rd best team in the nation for no other reason then biased toward the other conferences, BUT they believe if they go undefeated and are the only other team to do so other than UM/OSU, then they should play in the NC game because that's how it was designed, and it was designed by the ole SEC commish....

Last night during the NIU v. Toledo game three voters or rather the announcers Craig James, Doug Flutie, and Mike Turico all agreed.  They gave a list of their top 5 BEST teams, and to a man they all had UL at #5 or outside of the top 5- no reason other than "PERSONALLY they didn't think they were better than those 5".  Then they had what they thought the top 5 in the polls should be and each had Mich,OSU, and UL.  They all three agreed, and mentioned that other pollsters they spoke with said the same, that if UL goes undefeated, regardless who they think is the better team, then they need to be in the national championship game because that's how the system was set-up.

A playoff system is for the better teams....in other words they said if a playoff system was instituted and UL finished undefeated they said no way they would get or deserve the #2 seed, but in the BCS system, go undefeated and they deserve the chance to play for the NC since that's how the sytem is devised.   Craig James said it better, if you do that then every school must be held accountable from here forward meaning next year if Auburn goes undefeated but plays a patsy OOC again, and say Michigan loses 1 game but has a hellacious OOC schedule...how often are we going to play that game?  When does a line in the sand get drawn.

That's how the pollsters ultimately see it.  Basically many agree that although they may not like voting UL #2 if that's what ultimately happens but would do it because that's how the system is set-up.  Kramer and Silve agree too.  So I think they're now all going to spend the next 45 days as long as UL maintains their lofty ranking, taking cheap pot shots at them (personally because I think that the PR machine at lots of these big schools have some of these writers bought in their hip pockets) to ruin the BCS and make sure the world knows that they personally- although they have no proof otherwise- believe that UL isn't the 2nd best team eventhough based on this 'stupid' BCS system they 'deserve' to be there.  SAD!

Ultimately, given this stance I believe SENDING UL to the championship game will get more clammoring from the big boys in the SEC, and B12 to go to playoffs then not sending UL.  Not sending UL and you're caving to popular opinion that they're not the best team, and all these gigantic power conferences with the giant PR machines can't say well we don't like the BCS EVEN THOUGHT it treated us fairly, and then the media can't bring down the BCS.  SO, if someone wanted to BREAK UP the BCS in favor of playoffs then the best thing is for UL to go, but keep trying to remind the general public that UL isn't the 2nd best team- when they have no proof that they're not, or for that matter maybe not the BEST team.  Those big PR machines will run around and say LOOK, you've got Boise in a BCS game, UL in the NC game, and EVERYONE knows that neither could beat even the 4th place SEC team (I am not agreeing with that last comment just saying what will be said if this happens).  Have a playoff system and we can REALLY prove which is the dominant conference and program.

Sad, but true.  To much for these conferences to lose by not doing this.  Football has become so big money that unfortunately conferences and the media now must take pot shots at a program's  successes instead of admiring them.

[Bull Dozer]

If you want to see a playoff you should root for UL to get to the NC against an undefeated UM or OSU and get taken to the woodshed while the one loss team that is in 3rd places kicks the head in of whoever they play in their bowl.  UL winning the NC does nothing for a playoff because if they win it shows they belong to be there.  UL must get there and get taken to the woodshed while someone else below them in the BCS with a "legitimate" case that they should be there instead wins in impressive fashion.  This will spark more debate about a playoff just like the year USC rolled over OU in the NC and an undefeated Auburn was left to wonder what if.        

[BullDoug]

Scenario:  Don't send UL to the NCG.  UL wins BIG over the TX, UF, Auburn, or Arkansas.  Then the one loss team narrowly defeats the unbeaten winner of UM/OSU.  Remem USC will play the losser of UM@OSU in the Rose.  IMO UL deserves the NC...right?

Anyway, with schedules being made two to four yrs in advance, how can you penalize UL for UM having a down yr?  UL will have played 3-4 ranked teams (2 Top 10s), 9 of 12 opponents will be bowl eligible and if they go undefeated including the bowl.  Which other team will have done more?  UL deserves to go.  Going undefeated get you there unless you are Boise State...right?  Uh oh...Pandora's box is opening

[Bullpride08]

Scenario:  Don't send UL to the NCG.  UL wins BIG over the TX, UF, Auburn, or Arkansas.  Then the one loss team narrowly defeats the unbeaten winner of UM/OSU.  Remem USC will play the losser of UM@OSU in the Rose.  IMO UL deserves the NC...right?

Anyway, with schedules being made two to four yrs in advance, how can you penalize UL for UM having a down yr?  UL will have played 3-4 ranked teams (2 Top 10s), 9 of 12 opponents will be bowl eligible and if they go undefeated including the bowl.  Which other team will have done more?  UL deserves to go.  Going undefeated get you there unless you are Boise State...right?  Uh oh...Pandora's box is opening

I don't think anyone is penalizing UL for the quality of UM.  Actually, UL by the end of the season could be one of the few programs in the country to have played as many as 9 bowl teams.  Right now on their schedule- USF, WVU, Rutgers, Pitt, MTSU, KSU all qualify for a bowl game and only UM, Cinci, and Kentucky are each one win away.  The bet is those three will obtain bowl status as well.

To me the argument now with UL versus WVU as the 3rd ranked team (WVU's schedule OOC was much weaker than even UL's) is what's the definition of a 'tough schedule'?  That's the confusion.

If you lined up say UF- and obviously we're taking into account this season and the records.

UF's schedule

Southern Piss

UCF

UT

UK

Bama

LSU

Auburn

UGA

Vandy

USC

WCarolina

FSU

and the SEC Championship game (possibly Auburn again or ARK).

The question is is that schedule significantly tougher than UL's:

UK (played both, and UL had the significant scoring differential and success against them compared to UF).  PUSH

Temple- (no different then UF's W. Carolina)- SLIGHT ADVANTAGE UL or a PUSH

Miami- at least as tough as the FSU match-up- PUSH

KSU- as tough as Bama - PUSH AGAIN

MTSU- tougher than Southern Miss this year ADVANTAGE UL

Cinci- easily as tough as UGA this year- PUSH (UGA has lost to Vandy, UK and should have lost to Colorado, i'd say Cinci beats them)

Cuse- no different then playing Vandy- PUSH

WVU- their Auburn to me if WVU and Auburn played right now WVU would win. PUSH (impossible to say that Auburn is anything more than marginally better than WVU).

Rutgers- slightly worse than LSU ADVANTAGE UF (not by a large margin though)

Pittsburgh- UT, a big advantage.  UT is clearly better than Pitt, how much is debatable but better especially at UT.  Strong Advantage UF.

USF- better than UCF- Advantage UL

Uconn- the only other team is USC, and in this case it's a solid advantage.  Large advantage UF.

So, judging by the regular season of each team having 12 games, by my calculations UF really only played one extra tough game over UL.  Meaning the Auburn, LSU, and UT is tougher than WVU, Rutgers, and Pitt group  the first two about equal but the UT v. Pitt the UT game would win out as the most significant.

BUT, looking at the totality of both schedules the UF schedule isn't SO MUCH BETTER AND STRONGER as some might suggest.  Before the SEC Championship game UF might play one more power team then UL, but overall UL played a very balanced and challenging schedule.  

Who's tougher, or who played tougher is debatable.  But moreso what is "Tough enough" is more debatable.  I think clearly UL played a "Tough enough schedule" that compares favorably to everything played by Auburn, UT, and UF--eventhough those schools refuse to give their due to WVU, and Rutgers.

[Brad]

Repaired

[dabull80]

This argument goes on most years about the "best" team in a national championship game.  More often then not, it is not the "two best teams,undefeated teams playing.