“F” the new OCS. Put the $300 million towards NIL and buy some players

[Triple B]

3 minutes ago, MMW said:

I can't believe this is still being debated.  The stadium is finally happening and it should have been done in the beginning.

I've toured every college in the state of Florida with my kids.  UCF, FAU, FIU all have stadiums.  The stadiums are on campus because it's a college activity.  It matters not what some old codgers on a message board think it's for the students - which is where fans originate.

My kids go to UF and FSU.  I encouraged that over USF because I wanted them to have an actual college experience. The game day atmosphere where the students roll out of bed and go to the game.  College kids are lazy and get this, putting the stadiums next to the freaking dorms was INTENTIONAL. FSU's stadium has bleachers and feels like a dungeon but the kids poured out of the dorms on parents day anyway.

Sorry if our old fat asses need a padded seat, it's not for us.  

Ray Jay is a professional stadium that we sold out a handful of times, the rest of the time it looks empty, even in the good old days forget now.  These kids are expected to take a bus? Drive? 

Your entitled to your opinion if you think an OCS is a bad idea, it matters not in the grand scheme because it's happening.  I predict however that when you first set foot in the new stadium you will begrudgingly realize how mistaken you have been all along.

 

I appreciate all the logic and common sense that's been inserted but this is one of those expected threads following a game like last night. This board has a valued role as a cathartic harbor ....

[puc86]

3 minutes ago, Bull Matrix said:

Miami is not looking too good lately and their attendance looks embarrassing with playing games at Dolphin’s stadium. I bet there are Cane fans that wish they still had the old Orange Bowl even though that was not on campus. Just felt like that had their own home 

But in touring all of them they noticed that Miami also didn’t have an OCS, which helped them notice that every team that had an NFL stadium didn’t have an OCS and that every team that had an OCS had it because their only other option was a HS stadium, right?

[00Bull]

45 minutes ago, MMW said:

Ray Jay is a professional stadium that we sold out a handful of times, the rest of the time it looks empty, even in the good old days forget now.  These kids are expected to take a bus? Drive? 

 

 

Yes. That is the general way one would expect to commute around town. I find it odd that attending RayJay (6x a year at that) is the only time I ever hear this argument made. This supposed inability to leave campus doesn’t seem to impact other businesses…beaches, amusements parks, bars, clubs, etc. So perhaps it’s not the :20 drive (to park for free), perhaps it’s the quality of the product that they are rejecting. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by 00Bull

[JAFFX2]

13 hours ago, Sellular1 said:

What’s the point of getting a 50 burger hung on your arse week after week.  It’s not like Penn State just whipped our tailpipes, it was **** FAU… a team that should never be competitive with us yet alone prison sex us.  
So stop the madness, flip the script, and just offer every 5 star 5th year senior $5million to come be coached by Nick Saban who we pay $50 million.

Not building the OCS, not going into debt, and the option to spend money on other needs is a valid point.  Spending that money on NIL is not because it is in no way shape or form legal to spend university money on NIL...........

[MMW]

32 minutes ago, puc86 said:

You skipped Miami?

Miami is an $85,000/year private school so yea I skipped Miami.  With their attendance woes I fail to see your point.

What I learned over the past few years with three, soon to be four kids in college simultaneously is the cheapest way to attend college is to live at home and go to HCC and then jump to USF.  As the dad, that was always my plan.  My wife convinced me that college could be more than getting a degree, that the overall experience was part of the growth and education.  Being away from home in a town focused on a college provided a certain intangible value.

A school imbedded in a city was not what we were going for.  If living in Miami was the goal we would have gone with FIU which has a beautiful campus and a stadium.

USF has come a long way since my wife attended as an undergraduate.  The new dorms are pretty slick (better than UF, FSU and UCF imo).  I would say a big knock is the off campus environment is not very collegy and too close to home. 

UF was the school all the kids wanted to get in to.  They are the top dog but as the top dog they don't give a ****.  The dorms are horrible and the town is old and you get the sense that the administration has a take it or leave it vibe.

FSU is freaking nice.  The dorms are plentiful, big, clean and close to everything.  The off campus situations is awesome. 

UCF was actually pretty nice but like USF (and FIU) had a limited college feel when you stepped off campus - at least as perceived from a one day tour.

My daughters chose UF and my son wanted his independence so chose FSU.  

As parents we get to compare the schools and I have been really impressed with FSU.  When the hurricane came UF told all 30,000 students to stock up in the publix across the street as the dining halls were likely to close.  At the same time my son was telling me they were serving ice cream in the dorms and they would provide sandwiches in case the dining halls shut down.  Isn't UF supposed to be the better school?  They just seem like "take it or leave it".

One last thing, Florida has a really good secondary education system.  There really is something for everyone.  If you struggled academically there are schools (including the CC's) for you.  If you dream of graduating from UF there is a path if you are motivated.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MMW]

20 minutes ago, 00Bull said:

Yes. That is the general way one would expect to commute around town. I find it odd that attending RayJay (6x a year at that) is the only time I ever hear this argument made. This supposed inability to leave campus doesn’t seem to impact other businesses…beaches, amusements parks, bars, clubs, etc. So perhaps it’s not the :20 drive (to park for free), perhaps it’s the quality of the product that they are rejecting. 

Honestly, and I really don't want to come off sounding condescending, but have to attending games at other schools?  Were you one of the lucky ones that went to the Notre Dame game for example?  Have you been on a campus on game day?

If you have, and this is my primary point, maybe you missed what if felt like.  My kids don't follow college football much to my dismay.  They go to schools with cathedrals for stadiums and they asked me if their schools were any good.  They do go to the games because that is what the campus is doing.  Maybe they will become raging fans yet, who knows?

At the end of the day it is a student centered activity at most of these schools.  Even when I go as a parent I feel like a visitor in their world which is how it should be. 

At Ray Jay it is the opposite, we have twisted it like all adults do into a parent or adult centric thing.  Worrying about attendance and conferences and whatnot.  Then wondering why we don't have a stronger alumni fanbase.  I can tell you why that is, because we did not create an experience kids can be nostalgic about later in life.

[puc86]

59 minutes ago, MMW said:

Miami is an $85,000/year private school so yea I skipped Miami.  With their attendance woes I fail to see your point.

What I learned over the past few years with three, soon to be four kids in college simultaneously is the cheapest way to attend college is to live at home and go to HCC and then jump to USF.  As the dad, that was always my plan.  My wife convinced me that college could be more than getting a degree, that the overall experience was part of the growth and education.  Being away from home in a town focused on a college provided a certain intangible value.

A school imbedded in a city was not what we were going for.  If living in Miami was the goal we would have gone with FIU which has a beautiful campus and a stadium.

USF has come a long way since my wife attended as an undergraduate.  The new dorms are pretty slick (better than UF, FSU and UCF imo).  I would say a big knock is the off campus environment is not very collegy and too close to home. 

UF was the school all the kids wanted to get in to.  They are the top dog but as the top dog they don't give a ****.  The dorms are horrible and the town is old and you get the sense that the administration has a take it or leave it vibe.

FSU is freaking nice.  The dorms are plentiful, big, clean and close to everything.  The off campus situations is awesome. 

UCF was actually pretty nice but like USF (and FIU) had a limited college feel when you stepped off campus - at least as perceived from a one day tour.

My daughters chose UF and my son wanted his independence so chose FSU.  

As parents we get to compare the schools and I have been really impressed with FSU.  When the hurricane came UF told all 30,000 students to stock up in the publix across the street as the dining halls were likely to close.  At the same time my son was telling me they were serving ice cream in the dorms and they would provide sandwiches in case the dining halls shut down.  Isn't UF supposed to be the better school?  They just seem like "take it or leave it".

One last thing, Florida has a really good secondary education system.  There really is something for everyone.  If you struggled academically there are schools (including the CC's) for you.  If you dream of graduating from UF there is a path if you are motivated.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I’m missing the point then, $350 million spent on almost anything else would be eligible for state money and have a far greater return on most of your complaints than an OCS. 

[MMW]

1 minute ago, puc86 said:

I guess I’m missing the point then, $350 million spent on almost anything else would be eligible for state money and have a far greater return on most of your complaints than an OCS. 

Yea, I guess we are not seeing each other's points.  My complaint is USF does not have an on campus stadium and doesn't provide the same college experience as other schools in the state and that is a shame.  I believe that depresses the alumni fanbase.  

One of my points is we are looking at this as a business transaction and not an emotional one.   Fans that support teams do so on an emotional basis - see current irrational meltdown as exhibit A.  Is it economically better to rent?  Maybe, maybe not but that is the wrong question to ask. 

Look at it this way, at those other colleges, you see tons of middle aged zombies returning to the campus to relive their youth.  They are coming to see their team win, yes, but they are also trying to see their old stomping grounds.  They are getting an added benefit what isn't something they would get by returning to Ray Jay where they also watch the Bucs.

USF has made great gains academically, it has upgraded the dorms but it sterile on Saturdays when other campuses, even FIU and FAU have a carnival like atmosphere.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[MMW]

1 hour ago, JAFFX2 said:

Not building the OCS, not going into debt, and the option to spend money on other needs is a valid point.  Spending that money on NIL is not because it is in no way shape or form legal to spend university money on NIL...........

If it is a question of spending $350M for NIL, come guys, get real.  We are among the sisters of the poor and will be outbid every time by the bigger fish.

Go read David and Goliath: Underdogs, Misfits, and the Art of Battling Giants by Malcolm Gladwell.   If not for this topic, life in general.

In it he talks about how it is a losers game to fight the giants where they are strongest.  I can see why a lot of folks want to shut the program down because the game is rigged.  Maybe because you are playing their game.  We will never be Alabama or UF from a national title perspective, but we can make it a hell of a time on gameday.

I will keep going back to it is not your program - its for the students not the adults.  Make it the best game day experience in the state for them.  You'd be surprised what that will do for the program.  

 

 

[puc86]

 

31 minutes ago, MMW said:

If it is a question of spending $350M for NIL, come guys, get real.  We are among the sisters of the poor and will be outbid every time by the bigger fish.

Go read David and Goliath: Underdogs, Misfits, and the Art of Battling Giants by Malcolm Gladwell.   If not for this topic, life in general.

In it he talks about how it is a losers game to fight the giants where they are strongest.  I can see why a lot of folks want to shut the program down because the game is rigged.  Maybe because you are playing their game.  We will never be Alabama or UF from a national title perspective, but we can make it a hell of a time on gameday.

I will keep going back to it is not your program - its for the students not the adults.  Make it the best game day experience in the state for them.  You'd be surprised what that will do for the program.  

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, MMW said:

Yea, I guess we are not seeing each other's points.  My complaint is USF does not have an on campus stadium and doesn't provide the same college experience as other schools in the state and that is a shame.  I believe that depresses the alumni fanbase.  

One of my points is we are looking at this as a business transaction and not an emotional one.   Fans that support teams do so on an emotional basis - see current irrational meltdown as exhibit A.  Is it economically better to rent?  Maybe, maybe not but that is the wrong question to ask. 

Look at it this way, at those other colleges, you see tons of middle aged zombies returning to the campus to relive their youth.  They are coming to see their team win, yes, but they are also trying to see their old stomping grounds.  They are getting an added benefit what isn't something they would get by returning to Ray Jay where they also watch the Bucs.

USF has made great gains academically, it has upgraded the dorms but it sterile on Saturdays when other campuses, even FIU and FAU have a carnival like atmosphere.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

I think you are conflating issues and the only way to get to the conclusion that a an OCS is a reasonable solution to solve any of these problems is to start with the premise that the OCS is of primary importance and to work backwards. Identify what are the biggest problems you are trying to solve for, then what are the short term and long term impacts you can implement solutions for, decide how much money you can spend and then start rolling out your solutions in the order you force ranked them and there is no way an OCS end up in the first quartile of solutions.

The one positive that we have over the Goliath's is that we are lean, able to pivot, have no giant expenditure that will never be finished paying off and we have nothing to lose. Building a Goliath Stadium when you are a Shepard is a bad idea and we should look at how we take out Goliath and become king which will make getting a castle a lot easier and look less ridiculous.

When I first got to USF everyone was wearing UF, FSU, Miami and you name its gear because they followed real teams, not because of anything to do with stadiums. As we started winning, beating real teams and becoming a real team ourselves that dynamic changed while in the very same same stadium. An OCS does not solve for any of the problems anyone has with supporting us who we play and how we are playing does. That is what actually matters and anyone that has sold you anything different is lying to you because they have no solutions to the actual problems they are in charge of resolving.