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[raptorcj]

1 hour ago, Bourbon Bull said:

19 hours ago, brybull1970 said:

Using your logic, how would you know who to hire then if EVERYONE would go 0-17 with this team? So if you stack Bartow up against who is and likely will be available I think there will be other coaches with a better resume.

It looks like we agree on this.  Basing the hiring of Bartow on his interim time here isn't fair to the guy. But if you look at his history/resume and compare it to others interested in the job and think he is the best guy then fine. If it is someone else then go with the other guy.

If he took over and just hit a double (out of the park is out of the question), then yeah I'd jump in his camp, but aside from Fitts suddenly showing a lot of promise, I don't see much that tells me Bartow is our man.

[CousinRicky]

21 minutes ago, raptorcj said:

If he took over and just hit a double (out of the park is out of the question), then yeah I'd jump in his camp, but aside from Fitts suddenly showing a lot of promise, I don't see much that tells me Bartow is our man.

I hate to keep coming back to the same thing.  But these aren't his kids.  If one or two are showing more promise under him that what else could you expect from a coach?  Guerrero and Fitts have shown some improvement.  And again, I'm not advocating for him but, I just don't know how you judge him with this group of players. 

[Brad]

A coach doesn't need "his guys" to show he can coach.

[Triple B]

1 hour ago, Bourbon Bull said:

I hate to keep coming back to the same thing.  But these aren't his kids.  If one or two are showing more promise under him that what else could you expect from a coach?  Guerrero and Fitts have shown some improvement.  And again, I'm not advocating for him but, I just don't know how you judge him with this group of players. 

 

25 minutes ago, Brad said:

A coach doesn't need "his guys" to show he can coach.

Are W/L's the end all to evaluate whether he can coach or not? I'm not a real technical X's and O's guy when it comes to basketball, but they look different, at least at the offensive end, with more movement, set plays, with little real time input from Bartow. COA was the most hands on hc I can remember here, seemingly keeping a constant barrage of instructions directed at the court. Like BB, I'm not saying that CMB is my first choice but I wouldn't have a problem if Harlan gave him a shot ... unless it came out after he was retained him that Roy Williams and Coach K were lobbying for the job.

[Brad]

My evaluation would not be on the Ws and Ls alone - that's lazy and incomplete.

There were some stats published in the last game release regarding 3 pg shooting and assists being up.  Are turnovers?  You can look at the stats that will indicate progression.

Personally, I'm not a CMB fan (can't shake that UAB stank), but I think he brings a semblance of basketball to the court that would entice me to take a deeper look at him were I Mr. Harlan.

While I disagree with BB that he has to "have his guys", I agree that he could/should get a look.  A coach adapts the play to the players.  A good coach does. 

 

[CousinRicky]

1 hour ago, Brad said:

My evaluation would not be on the Ws and Ls alone - that's lazy and incomplete.

There were some stats published in the last game release regarding 3 pg shooting and assists being up.  Are turnovers?  You can look at the stats that will indicate progression.

Personally, I'm not a CMB fan (can't shake that UAB stank), but I think he brings a semblance of basketball to the court that would entice me to take a deeper look at him were I Mr. Harlan.

While I disagree with BB that he has to "have his guys", I agree that he could/should get a look.  A coach adapts the play to the players.  A good coach does. 

 

Couple of things. Fill me in on the UAB stank.  I have no idea what happened there.

And, as far as "his guys", if he wants to play a certain style of play I think that could be important. Having said that, if the guys on the team are showing improvement (at least some of them) I wouldn't necessarily rule him out.

[raptorcj]

2 hours ago, Bourbon Bull said:

I hate to keep coming back to the same thing.  But these aren't his kids.  If one or two are showing more promise under him that what else could you expect from a coach?  Guerrero and Fitts have shown some improvement.  And again, I'm not advocating for him but, I just don't know how you judge him with this group of players. 

 

1 hour ago, Triple B said:

 

Are W/L's the end all to evaluate whether he can coach or not? I'm not a real technical X's and O's guy when it comes to basketball, but they look different, at least at the offensive end, with more movement, set plays, with little real time input from Bartow. COA was the most hands on hc I can remember here, seemingly keeping a constant barrage of instructions directed at the court. Like BB, I'm not saying that CMB is my first choice but I wouldn't have a problem if Harlan gave him a shot ... unless it came out after he was retained him that Roy Williams and Coach K were lobbying for the job.

I'm no expert either, it's only my opinion based on what I've seen in the past. But the W/L isn't at all what I'm talking about. I said it in another thread, they just start looking "beaten" (aside from maybe Fitts) as they lose ground in the second half of games. Some may be physical, but what I care about is mental. If he can't get the best out of what he has, I don't have confidence he'll be able to attract great recruits, develop individual confidence, or build a strong team mentality. I just don't see a well-rounded coach yet.

[Triple B]

51 minutes ago, raptorcj said:

Some may be physical, but what I care about is mental.

If you're able to actually see into these kids' minds, I'm all ears .... One simple thing that I'm partly basing my optimism on CMB/players on is during the Temple game, I think about the 11 minute mark, after an Owl made basket to go up by 23 or 24, the inbound ball was rolled in to Bibby who didn't pick it up until he had to on our half of the court to, I assume, preserve every second possible to stage a comeback. Don't know whose call that was and maybe it's a pretty common occurrence for teams down by that much with still over half the half to go, but I don't recall seeing it before and was impressed by the not giving up aspect of it.

[charsibb]

2 hours ago, Bourbon Bull said:

Couple of things. Fill me in on the UAB stank.  I have no idea what happened there.

 

Back in the day, UAB was one of our big Sun Belt rivals (along with VCU, ODU and USA). Lots of bad blood in that group. Our all-time records? Not good

UAB 21-38
VCU 12-26
ODU 11-17
USA 11-27

[CousinRicky]

7 minutes ago, brybull1970 said:

Your arguement isn't a valid one for making him the permanent coach but rather an arguement that he's not to blame for whatever record he finishes with.

For many in this board it appears that "the not his fault" argument is somehow a resume builder.

You really don't get what I'm saying.  I'll try it this way.  I don't see how this precludes him from getting the job.  He has a resume from past jobs. As no other candidate has experience with THIS team, you can't measure what he's doing here vs what anyone else has done here.  So look at him based on his other experiences vs the other candidates. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that Harlan foresaw this and Bartow was brought in with the possibility that FCOA could be fired.