Joey Knight strikes again...

[ArmyBull]

To ECUshoein:

 

For some reason it won't let me quote, but I am specifically replying to a statement you made in one of your posts that UCF's attendance is better than USF's.

 

You do realize that other than the past 2-3 years, USF's attendance was SIGNIFICANTLY higher than UCF's, every single year, don't you.  We had 3 or 4 years where we averaged over 50K for the year, which is significantly larger than UCF's stadium holds.  The entire decade we were in the Big East, we had much higher crowds than UCF had.  This is a fact, you can look it up.

 

Now if you're just going off the past couple years that UCF went to a BCS bowl and USF was winning 2 games...then yes, you would be correct. 

 

 

Well DUH!  We were in a power 5 conference playing power 5 teams.  They were in freaking Conference USA playing the likes of Tulsa and Southern Miss.  All of this **** measuring with UCF can only be done when all the variables are the same, meaning, since we have been in the same conference.  For years they came at us with this rivalry notion that we (USF Fans) consistently stated that there was no such rivalry.  Now, only two years in, it is apparent that they have been and will be our only real rival EVER!  We tried hard to make it work with Miami but they treated us like we treated UCF.  

 

Here is how it plays out for those who are keeping score.  Head to head 0-2 (UCF), BCS Bowls won - 1(UCF), conference championships won 2 (UCF).

[I like GOOOOLD (and green)]

To ECUshoein:

 

For some reason it won't let me quote, but I am specifically replying to a statement you made in one of your posts that UCF's attendance is better than USF's.

 

You do realize that other than the past 2-3 years, USF's attendance was SIGNIFICANTLY higher than UCF's, every single year, don't you.  We had 3 or 4 years where we averaged over 50K for the year, which is significantly larger than UCF's stadium holds.  The entire decade we were in the Big East, we had much higher crowds than UCF had.  This is a fact, you can look it up.

 

Now if you're just going off the past couple years that UCF went to a BCS bowl and USF was winning 2 games...then yes, you would be correct. 

 

I am certain USF was once a bigger draw, I am operating in the present though, and with the most respect possible in the present that is not the case.  As someone else said comparing your best years in a power conference with big time home games (the original point regarding attendance) to a team in a lesser conference doesn't paint a very accurate picture relevant to today.  You really just underscored my point that quality of home opponent plays a big role in attendance numbers, which should be obvious, I didn't expect that to be a sticking point. 

[Triple B]

All of this **** measuring with UCF can only be done when all the variables are the same, meaning, since we have been in the same conference.

 

That's only one variable. Maybe we should measure when one isn't having the best years in their history and the other, the worst years ...

 

 

For years they came at us with this rivalry notion that we (USF Fans) consistently stated that there was no such rivalry.

 

How can you have a rivalry when you don't play?

 

 

Now, only two years in, it is apparent that they have been and will be our only real rival EVER!

 

No, they've been a rival for those two years, since we've started playing them in meaningful games.

 

Here is how it plays out for those who are keeping score.  Head to head 0-2 (UCF), BCS Bowls won - 1(UCF), conference championships won 2 (UCF).

 

Wait, so to you they've apparently ALWAYS been our rival but you don't acknowledge our 4 wins ...... Interesting.

[Triple B]

 

To ECUshoein:

 

For some reason it won't let me quote, but I am specifically replying to a statement you made in one of your posts that UCF's attendance is better than USF's.

 

You do realize that other than the past 2-3 years, USF's attendance was SIGNIFICANTLY higher than UCF's, every single year, don't you.  We had 3 or 4 years where we averaged over 50K for the year, which is significantly larger than UCF's stadium holds.  The entire decade we were in the Big East, we had much higher crowds than UCF had.  This is a fact, you can look it up.

 

Now if you're just going off the past couple years that UCF went to a BCS bowl and USF was winning 2 games...then yes, you would be correct. 

 

I am certain USF was once a bigger draw, I am operating in the present though, and with the most respect possible in the present that is not the case.

 

 

No need for respect. Everybody here knows that we've sucked the last 3 years and aren't a draw. Only way to see how much the conference mattered in the drawing power is when we get back to those winning ways ... although, it's not like the BE was littered with marquee teams coming in here on a regular basis. WVU, and in the latter years, Louisville possibly the only two meeting that criteria.

[I like GOOOOLD (and green)]

 

I'm not going to make excuses, just making an observation based on quality of opponents and the relation to attendance.  They played Tulsa, Tulane, SMU, and BCC for crying out loud.  Quick math shows that if you take out the SMU game, which was their lowest draw at ~31k that their avg attendance for the year was a shade under 40K.  That's not bad for that kind of competition coming through their stadium, its only a few thousand below capacity.  Close your eyes and think about the type of team you would expect to be playing that group of teams and then picture their crowd size...does it scream ~40k to you? Not me...

 

And if you take out their highest draw, a school a half hour away, that draws people just for their halftime show, what does that do to their avg attendance?

 

I don't know how I feel about your 'selling out a game' question, I agree in theory that they should have been able to do it at least once-but against whom? BCC was their biggest draw, yet were ~800 off the pace, once again, not bad really considering.

Considering, like mentioned above, it was a school a half hour away with a band that puts butts in seats, their first home game following that awesome year, where I guess they had some sort of Fiesta Bowl trophy presentation, a sellout should have been a slam dunk for that game .... and they never came close again   

 

 

To the point of links to USF attendance numbers and whatnot, I am not certain of guidelines and such for this forum and material...but I came across one just by googling 'USF football attendance'.  It was the second link. I wasn't looking for it, so they are easy to find.  It did have a nice chart laying out various attendance figures, which was useful for my initial ECU USF UCF comparison.  And, to the guy that dismissed my comment by saying something to the effect of 'all schools inflate their numbers, so it doesn't mean anything': In my post I acknowledged that already; the degree of detail to which the article suggested that USF altered numbers was significant enough to merit media attention, and rightfully so, there was some damming stuff on there.  It was meaningful.  But, I also said that will change with winning, so there is no need to go sour grapes on something you don't like to hear.

 

No offense, ECU, but I had to laugh when the link that I think you looked at came up, http://www.voodoofive.com/2014/1/14/5306018/2013-was-the-worst-attended-season-in-the-bcs-era-for-usf-football . That wasn't driven by some national media attention.  That site is run by an ex-USF employee who, at times, wouldn't be a stretch to call "disgruntled". Not saying the figures aren't accurate, I'm sure they are, but as you yourself said, there are very few programs that have to report actual butts in seats. Our figures do look high but there's really nothing to compare them with on a national basis. I'm sure there are plenty of programs where the two figures are close but may be just as many that are just as inflated. You will notice that the article had nothing whatsoever definitive about other programs. It was an article that makes JK look a USF cheerleader.

 

 

 

BCC was their opening game, and biggest turnout, sure.  In the interest of being completely objective lets just take out the highest and lowest attendance games-which gives us an average attendance of ~38k.  Not much variance.  As far as your second response, I don't know what you're looking for considering I answered that I felt there should have been a sellout in there somewhere, and found it curious that there wasn't.  It seems you are arguing semantics when the bottom line is-and the point was that regardless of 'sell outs', they still had easily the second best attendance in the conference by a sizable margin despite having a hard-to-argue-with deplorable home schedule. 

 

I don't know former USF writers, I do know that SBnation is a large media outlet though, their stories get circulated nationally.  I also came across that one searching 'USF football attendance' and it was the second most prominent link (lots of clicks).  I did not reference any of the other headlines that popped up for the search, nor did I click on them to see what they had to say...the descriptions were not positive WRT attendance for the most part so I don't think it was an isolated article.  I don't understand why you winked at the end of your comment when essentially all you said was that the guy was a former employee who went to a bigger platform, and that he provided facts to show the scale of amendments made, particularly of late...and that there are plenty of schools whose figures are probably close, but that there might be some who have similar records of fudging.  How can an article using objective data make another writer I assume to be a debbie downer appear to be a cheerleader even make sense? How is that wink-worthy? I think you are being defensive when it isn't necessary.  Perhaps I should take a step back before somebody gets "  " and I get " ".

[Brad]

Win. Boom. Season ticket sales go up.

Lose. Boom. Season ticket sales go down.

Not rocket science.

You lose credibility using "booms" with rocket science.

[DELdaBull]

Win. Boom. Season ticket sales go up.

Lose. Boom. Season ticket sales go down.

Not rocket science.

You lose credibility using "booms" with rocket science.

Must be rocket science then

[ArmyBull]

 

All of this **** measuring with UCF can only be done when all the variables are the same, meaning, since we have been in the same conference.

 

That's only one variable. Maybe we should measure when one isn't having the best years in their history and the other, the worst years ...

 

That's our fault.  So maybe we should wait until we are good again to start measuring anything?  Would that make you feel better?  It is what it is.  We are in the same conference now.

 

 

For years they came at us with this rivalry notion that we (USF Fans) consistently stated that there was no such rivalry.

 

How can you have a rivalry when you don't play?

 

Don't know, but if we were not, you are really trying to sell that we have this crazy rivalry after only two games?  Ok, but that does not pass the reasonable persons standards.  

 

Now, only two years in, it is apparent that they have been and will be our only real rival EVER!

 

No, they've been a rival for those two years, since we've started playing them in meaningful games.

 

Yeah, yeah, I drank this kool-aid too.  Rivalries are not created in two years, if this was so, we would be talking smack about Miami and not UCF all the time.  We were obviously rivals before this.  It's ok, I did not like it either, but you will realize this one day as well. 

 

Here is how it plays out for those who are keeping score.  Head to head 0-2 (UCF), BCS Bowls won - 1(UCF), conference championships won 2 (UCF).

 

Wait, so to you they've apparently ALWAYS been our rival but you don't acknowledge our 4 wins ...... Interesting.

 

Not interesting, and no, I did not always think they were always our rival, but I do now.  And heck yeah I count those wins but none of those wins took place while they were in the same conference, like the stats you quoted from me.  So in the context of things taking place while we were in the same conference,  no, I would not count them.  

[Triple B]

 

 

I'm not going to make excuses, just making an observation based on quality of opponents and the relation to attendance.  They played Tulsa, Tulane, SMU, and BCC for crying out loud.  Quick math shows that if you take out the SMU game, which was their lowest draw at ~31k that their avg attendance for the year was a shade under 40K.  That's not bad for that kind of competition coming through their stadium, its only a few thousand below capacity.  Close your eyes and think about the type of team you would expect to be playing that group of teams and then picture their crowd size...does it scream ~40k to you? Not me...

 

And if you take out their highest draw, a school a half hour away, that draws people just for their halftime show, what does that do to their avg attendance?

 

I don't know how I feel about your 'selling out a game' question, I agree in theory that they should have been able to do it at least once-but against whom? BCC was their biggest draw, yet were ~800 off the pace, once again, not bad really considering.

Considering, like mentioned above, it was a school a half hour away with a band that puts butts in seats, their first home game following that awesome year, where I guess they had some sort of Fiesta Bowl trophy presentation, a sellout should have been a slam dunk for that game .... and they never came close again   

 

 

To the point of links to USF attendance numbers and whatnot, I am not certain of guidelines and such for this forum and material...but I came across one just by googling 'USF football attendance'.  It was the second link. I wasn't looking for it, so they are easy to find.  It did have a nice chart laying out various attendance figures, which was useful for my initial ECU USF UCF comparison.  And, to the guy that dismissed my comment by saying something to the effect of 'all schools inflate their numbers, so it doesn't mean anything': In my post I acknowledged that already; the degree of detail to which the article suggested that USF altered numbers was significant enough to merit media attention, and rightfully so, there was some damming stuff on there.  It was meaningful.  But, I also said that will change with winning, so there is no need to go sour grapes on something you don't like to hear.

 

No offense, ECU, but I had to laugh when the link that I think you looked at came up, http://www.voodoofive.com/2014/1/14/5306018/2013-was-the-worst-attended-season-in-the-bcs-era-for-usf-football . That wasn't driven by some national media attention.  That site is run by an ex-USF employee who, at times, wouldn't be a stretch to call "disgruntled". Not saying the figures aren't accurate, I'm sure they are, but as you yourself said, there are very few programs that have to report actual butts in seats. Our figures do look high but there's really nothing to compare them with on a national basis. I'm sure there are plenty of programs where the two figures are close but may be just as many that are just as inflated. You will notice that the article had nothing whatsoever definitive about other programs. It was an article that makes JK look a USF cheerleader.

 

 

 

BCC was their opening game, and biggest turnout, sure.  In the interest of being completely objective lets just take out the highest and lowest attendance games-which gives us an average attendance of ~38k.  Not much variance.  As far as your second response, I don't know what you're looking for considering I answered that I felt there should have been a sellout in there somewhere, and found it curious that there wasn't.  It seems you are arguing semantics when the bottom line is-and the point was that regardless of 'sell outs', they still had easily the second best attendance in the conference by a sizable margin despite having a hard-to-argue-with deplorable home schedule. 

 

I don't know former USF writers, I do know that SBnation is a large media outlet though, their stories get circulated nationally.  I also came across that one searching 'USF football attendance' and it was the second most prominent link (lots of clicks).  I did not reference any of the other headlines that popped up for the search, nor did I click on them to see what they had to say...the descriptions were not positive WRT attendance for the most part so I don't think it was an isolated article.  I don't understand why you winked at the end of your comment when essentially all you said was that the guy was a former employee who went to a bigger platform, and that he provided facts to show the scale of amendments made, particularly of late...and that there are plenty of schools whose figures are probably close, but that there might be some who have similar records of fudging.  How can an article using objective data make another writer I assume to be a debbie downer appear to be a cheerleader even make sense? How is that wink-worthy? I think you are being defensive when it isn't necessary.  Perhaps I should take a step back before somebody gets "  " and I get " ".

 

 

Nah, you shouldn't be getting any devils or facepalms thrown at you for what you're saying .... but the more you write, the more apparent it becomes why you're defending them. Have a nice evening and let's hope we're both undefeated in conference when we come up there in November.

[TallyBull]

This is the best possible time to invest in the team, when there's nowhere to go but up.

I live out of town and bought season tickets for the first time this year. I'll probably only go to three games, but will give the other three to local family and friends.

"We'll be singing, when we're winning..." - Tub Thumper