My Plan to Save USF...

[hbryan]

Good Ole' Peckerwood Pete, causing hate and discontent in every holding pen at TBP. I think the old codger gets all amped up on his prescriptions of Ensure, Viagra, and Diazepam. Plus, he must be at his computer non-stop with only enough time taken off to change his Depends and wipe his wrinkly arse.

[Bull94]

here is a list of the top 25 teams that hired a coordinator as head coach. notice there are 14 out of 25 that hired a coordinator that had no prior head coaching experince.

Oregon

KSU

Georgia

FSU

UF

Clemson

UL

OU

Stanford

Miss State

Boise State

Nebraska

Louisianna Tech

WVU

Well, duh! You're cherry pickin' to prove your point. How would they get into the top 25 if they weren't successful??

Now show us the bottom 25 and let's see how many of those are failed coordinators.

I'm cherry picking? how so? I chose the successful teams , which is where USF wants to be, and showed that a majority of them hired coordinators as first time head coaches.

Here are teams that are in last place in their conference or division in a BCS conference that hired previous head coaches for their job.

Washington state

Virginia

Kansas

USF

Illinois

Minnesota

Auburn

there are 10 possibilites with Kentucky, Colorado and BC being the other 3 that hired coordinators. 70% of the failures were previous head coaches.

even if you look at the bottom, your claim that it's better to hire a HC is proven wrong. suppose you show some proof of your false claims.

[Plantation Pete]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

Only an idiot would say he wasn't.

[Triple B]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

[2000bull]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

you could start a poll

[Cow Pie]

Bowden is living off his father's resume and name more than Skip!

Coker lit the match that burned the Miami program to the ground, (he won the NC because Davis left that team LOADED with talent)

Shannon was behind Coker with gasoline screaming "FIRE, FIRE, haha FIRE"

Cristobal can't win in the SunBelt Conference, how's he going to do in the BigEast?

Coker and Shannon suck as the HC, but they are regarded as two of the best coordinators in college football back in the 1990's and early 2000's. Also as we have seen with USF, having a team with talent does nothing if you don't have good coordinators to use said talent.

I have read the objections to Bowden, but he unlike Skip has actually done something besides living off of his families name... his college football record is 140-62-2 with most of that 62 loses coming out of building up Auburn, coaching North Alabama to an overall 29-9 record, and coaching Akron which is a hot mess.

Face it this is a decent plan, but as others have stated we would have to lure in these coaches and after thinking about it some, $100K raises might not be able to do it for all of them. But with us blowing $2 million on Skip a year, and lord knows how much on Cosh, Finch, and the other lower coaches, I think we can offer these guys enough of a lucrative salary package to get them to come to USF.

I seriously doubt that Coker or Bowden are happy coaching two unheard of schools for meager pay, and while Coker is a HC now he is virtually a coordinator based on what level he is coaching at... I'm also **** sure that Shannon is not happy being a LB coach for TCU.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Bubba Bull

[Who'sYourData?]

Any plan that doesn't immediately start with "I will donate $3mil to the USF Athletic program" is a waste of time.

[Plantation Pete]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

[Bull94]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

a little overly dramatic.

we don't stand on some mythical precipice. we made a bad hire. that's it. time to cut our losses and try again.

hiring anyone is a risk whether or not they have previous head coaching experince. those same previous head coaches that can assemble a staff usually assemble that staff with a bunch of retreads.

I've shown over and over again that your opinion that hiring an experienced head coach has little to do wtih success. 14 of current top 25 programs hired a coordinator with no head coaching experince. 70% of last place teams in BCS conferences hired head coaches with previous experience. you can't back up your claim.

oh and as for your last statement, we have never had a hire like that. in case you forgot Jim Leavitt never built a successful program before he came here. he had no head coaching experience.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Bull94

[Triple B]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

A simple "I really have no clue what defines highly successful" would have sufficed there.