Playoff System?

[macphisto]

One major concern I have is this - since the Big East has not renegotiated its television contracts yet, it is the weakest of the big six, does the loss of AQ status have a major negative impact on the conference's ability to demand a high price in the forthcoming TV contract negotiations?

Don't you think the timing of this meeting and this announcement had something to do with the fact the other five wanted to sabotage the conference before the television contract was negotiated?

No. I think the timing was that they needed to come up with something to replace a system that expires in less than two years. The bidding for the next BCS contract will happen towards the end of the upcoming season. The current contract carries through the 2013 season.

As for the TV contract, AQ status will mean little. It will be about viewership, growth potential, and the competition for the contract. The top factor favoring the Big East is that they have the only regular season football contract available for bidding over the next five years and networks interested in trying to challenge ESPN in some form. That won't exclude ESPN, but it will drive up the price. Competitive bidding does. It will depend on what those networks feel is the BE's upside and how badly they want to try to dent ESPN/ABC. As I've said a million times, NBC will be the lone network without primetime college football on Saturday nights. They could throw up a reality show and concede the night. They could invest in a drama, which won't pull in the advertising revenue. Or they could get football. A lower rated football game gets more revenue than a lower rates reality show or a lower rated drama because advertisers believe (due to research) that football audiences are more receptive to advertising.

This was done because they need to have something to promote in order to get higher bids in the next year for the next contract.

The biggest issue is the bowl tie-ins and our best hope there is Notre Dame. They may be able to use their clout to get us a spot in one of the bigger bowls because it would give them a chance to pick ND should they qualify - and those bowls will no longer have the BCS standards to go by. There are only so many bowls to go around and they can't all get the SEC and the Fiesta, Orange, and Sugar will look for extra auto qualifiers.

Don't also count out the fact that any deal has to clear the Presidential Executive Committee. All 11 conferences get an equal vote. Let's say the ACC does not want a system where the SEC (or anyone else) could get two bids. They could use their pull with the Orange Bowl to arrange it for a conference like the BE to get an autobid there. Or the BXII could use their pull. Or the SEC could try something to get us to vote with them on their plan.

A majority of 12 votes will be needed. The ACC will likely not go for a system that allows for two bids to any one conference because it would likely exclude them most years. We know the truth that the Big East is not up there with the SEC, but it is better than the ACC for football right now. Chances are good that multi bids would be dominated by the SEC, B1G, and BXII. The ACC would not like that.

With those big former BCS bowls, we have five conferences locked in. Sure, they could go after the SEC or B1G to fill spaces, but those two already have ties with CapOne, Outback, Gator, etc. I'm not sure the Big Ten would be interested in picking up the Fiesta, Orange, or Sugar. They play the SEC plenty already in bowl games.

It goes both ways. And you can bet that the Outback, CapOne, etc will work to increase their payouts to keep the Big Ten, SEC, etc and not lose them to the Fiesta, Orange, etc.

I think we end up getting an autobid to the Sugar to play the SEC champ. For one, that bowl will sell out due to the SEC tie-in. In fact, I think we'll see the MWC/CUSA get the bid to the Fiesta to play the BXII. Let's call it bribery for a vote.

The most interesting thing will be to see how revenues are split. Will it only go to participating conferences, especially if the pot is so large? I think not. I do think the participants for each year will get the largest payouts, but all 11 conferences (and ND) will get a share of the revenue in some way.

There will be no more AQ, but I think that we will end up getting a contract that gives us a bid to one of the current BCS bowls.

[Joe]

Mac,

Your analysis in all this couldn't be further from the reality. The reason the current system is being accepted is because of potential open bidding of the bowl games. (thus the reason the conferences want neutral sites).

The ACC isn't helping the Big East, etc.

What will happen is the Orange Bowl, etc will start adding SEC, Big 10, Big 12 spots to fill gaps.

You've changed your story again...that's the history of you. Speaking in definites, with errant speculation. Yesterday it was the BE never dropping status because the other 5 conferences NEED us. Today it's to help the ACC?

The new system has a lot of work ahead of it, we'll see how it rolls, but I'm worried. It sucks. We're really looking at getting screwed.

[macphisto]

Mac,

Your analysis in all this couldn't be further from the reality. The reason the current system is being accepted is because of potential open bidding of the bowl games. (thus the reason the conferences want neutral sites).

The ACC isn't helping the Big East, etc.

What will happen is the Orange Bowl, etc will start adding SEC, Big 10, Big 12 spots to fill gaps.

You've changed your story again...that's the history of you. Speaking in definites, with errant speculation. Yesterday it was the BE never dropping status because the other 5 conferences NEED us. Today it's to help the ACC?

The new system has a lot of work ahead of it, we'll see how it rolls, but I'm worried. It sucks. We're really looking at getting screwed.

There are only so many slots. And I'm not changing my story either.

And yes, the other conferences do NEED us. They need ND too.

How many members are there on the Executive Committee that oversees and must approve a new BCS format? There are 12. ND sits on it. Then Presidents representing the other FBS conferences. That committee is not weighted towards the power conferences.

As for the Orange Bowl adding the SEC, where is your link? Show me proof other than your errant speculation.

This is all speculation.

Reality is that the SEC has tie-ins with the Outback, CapOne, Gator, Liberty, etc. They pick up one then they lose one because all SEC teams don't get bowl bids.

Do we even know what the payouts will be for the Orange or Fiesta after the BCS? The Fiesta has had a lot of issues. Are you sure that the Outback won't have a higher payout? If so, then why would the SEC or Big Ten go to the Orange? And would the Orange prefer the Big East champ or the #5 SEC team?

Who'll get the second bid to the Sugar Bowl? As I said, the Big Ten already plays the SEC a lot in bowl games and they likely lose the Gator if they take it (which they probably would be okay with). But Big Ten fans like the central and northern Florida bowls, so that may play a part.

And yes, the ACC may help the Big East if it wants it to vote a certain way.

[Cow Pie]

a 16 team playoff would still be super easy to do and even after eliminating 8-10 bowl games, they'd still be making good TV money off of it.

right now we have 11 conferences, give out 11 AQs (or maybe 9-10 if WAC or SunBelt (or other conference) don't qualify somehow), and that leaves 5 at-large bids. with how the conferences are structured now, 5 at larges would give Notre Dame and BYU opportunities, and with no conference limits, they could have 3 SEC teams (in addition to AQ team - the champ) get bids if they were that good and the bracket would sort out the rest.

first two rounds 3rd and 4th weekend of december, giving a week off for finals after the conference championship games that are the first weekend of december. play at home sites of higher seeded team. final four is 1st weekend of january and have a 3rd place game (losers of final four games) and championship game. that's four neutral site games to be rotated between orange, sugar, rose, and fiesta. so teams may have up to two away games if lower seeded, but if you reach the final four, you get two [current] "BCS" bowl games. not a bad reward, even for the 3rd/4th place game. champ game can be played around or just before the current title game goes on, and if new years isn't on a weekend, those bowl games can still have their limelight (outback/capital one/cotton/etc). the other teams still can have bowl games but without the dinky small bowls, less average 6-6 teams get in. less "crappy" bowl games (though i always liked watching even the most obscure bowls), and with less bowls, they can keep most of them scheduled for evening hours for more TV viewership (it's hard to watch independence bowl or new mexico bowl when it's at 3 or 4pm and people are still at work), and there won't be as many bowls competing at the same time = better TV numbers = more $$$ = happy stupid execs.

the only downside is less average/mediocre teams get those extra bowl practices but they don't deserve them and they can spend their time on finals and coaches can go recruiting (doesn't it make sense that the average/down-year coaches should have more time to recruit to improve their team anyways?) or ADs can have more time to coach search...and less crappy 6-6 coaches can win the no-one-cares bowl and somehow finagle another year to drive a team in the ground lol.

The main issue with doing away with all of the Bowl games in lue of a 16 game playoff system is that it will kill the sport, since the Bowl system makes up the backbone of what is college football. Only way that a 16 game playoff system would be able to replace the Bowl system is if you throw out the neutral site garbage.

Only way it would work is if the NCAA modeled the new system after the NFL's system in which the highest seed gets to play at home. The only neutral site game should be where the Championship Game is being held.

Personally I would like to see the Bowl system kept in tact to a certain degree, but just slimmed down so that Bowl games actually mean something again. Right now its as if anyone can get into a Bowl game. Don't get me wrong I would still like to see a playoff system implemented as well, but I just don't want to see the entire system scrapped.

Perhaps have the Top 8 teams in the Top 25 rankings have a playoff, then teams 9-24 would play in the bowl games, team 25 is left out in the cold. This way there will be a playoff system for a clear National Champion, and then all of the other teams will be able to get in a bowl games.

Best of both worlds.

[Joe]

Mac,

Your analysis in all this couldn't be further from the reality. The reason the current system is being accepted is because of potential open bidding of the bowl games. (thus the reason the conferences want neutral sites).

The ACC isn't helping the Big East, etc.

What will happen is the Orange Bowl, etc will start adding SEC, Big 10, Big 12 spots to fill gaps.

You've changed your story again...that's the history of you. Speaking in definites, with errant speculation. Yesterday it was the BE never dropping status because the other 5 conferences NEED us. Today it's to help the ACC?

The new system has a lot of work ahead of it, we'll see how it rolls, but I'm worried. It sucks. We're really looking at getting screwed.

There are only so many slots. And I'm not changing my story either.

And yes, the other conferences do NEED us. They need ND too.

How many members are there on the Executive Committee that oversees and must approve a new BCS format? There are 12. ND sits on it. Then Presidents representing the other FBS conferences. That committee is not weighted towards the power conferences.

So if a small conference like the MAC or the Sunbelt jumps aboard? The Big East isn't the keystone in this. Nor will they ever be.

As for the Orange Bowl adding the SEC, where is your link? Show me proof other than your errant speculation.

Where did I say the Orange Bowl was adding the SEC? I said..."What will happen is the Orange Bowl, etc will start adding SEC, Big 10, Big 12 spots to fill gaps"

Meaning the Orange Bowl and other big bowls will fill open tie ins with big name conferences.

This is all speculation.

No it's not. First the BIg East has never been locked in to any bowl in the BCS. Second, look at the trends! The Gator Bowl took on two 6-6 BE/SEC teams this year.

Reality is that the SEC has tie-ins with the Outback, CapOne, Gator, Liberty, etc. They pick up one then they lose one because all SEC teams don't get bowl bids.

I'm sure a conference like the SEC will be devastated replacing the Liberty Bowl with something like the Orange Bowl. Or the Music City Bowl. Or anything if offered.

[quite]Do we even know what the payouts will be for the Orange or Fiesta after the BCS? The Fiesta has had a lot of issues. Are you sure that the Outback won't have a higher payout? If so, then why would the SEC or Big Ten go to the Orange? And would the Orange prefer the Big East champ or the #5 SEC team?

This is ridiculous. The Orange Bowl, after the Rose, is probably the most celebrated bowl out there. They were ahead of everyone in payouts back in the day. So yes, they'll have a giant payout. They'll get two of the nation's best teams. They have for 60 years. If they offered the Big 10, SEC, Big 12 (who was their previous partner) a spot, it would be high, and they would take it.

Big Ten fans like the central and northern Florida bowls, so that may play a part.

Big Ten fans will travel to Alaska if you put a bowl there.

And yes, the ACC may help the Big East if it wants it to vote a certain way.

The ACC proposed this system. They proposed it 4 years ago. They're in, and the fact that this theory is your crutch throws all sorts of wrenches in it.

The Big East won't he totally shut out. We'll have our shots at the playoff. We'll pick up a decent bowl game or two. But our days of being included in that power group are over. They died when the AQ disappeared.

[Danm1983]

a 16 team playoff would still be super easy to do and even after eliminating 8-10 bowl games, they'd still be making good TV money off of it.

right now we have 11 conferences, give out 11 AQs (or maybe 9-10 if WAC or SunBelt (or other conference) don't qualify somehow), and that leaves 5 at-large bids. with how the conferences are structured now, 5 at larges would give Notre Dame and BYU opportunities, and with no conference limits, they could have 3 SEC teams (in addition to AQ team - the champ) get bids if they were that good and the bracket would sort out the rest.

first two rounds 3rd and 4th weekend of december, giving a week off for finals after the conference championship games that are the first weekend of december. play at home sites of higher seeded team. final four is 1st weekend of january and have a 3rd place game (losers of final four games) and championship game. that's four neutral site games to be rotated between orange, sugar, rose, and fiesta. so teams may have up to two away games if lower seeded, but if you reach the final four, you get two [current] "BCS" bowl games. not a bad reward, even for the 3rd/4th place game. champ game can be played around or just before the current title game goes on, and if new years isn't on a weekend, those bowl games can still have their limelight (outback/capital one/cotton/etc). the other teams still can have bowl games but without the dinky small bowls, less average 6-6 teams get in. less "crappy" bowl games (though i always liked watching even the most obscure bowls), and with less bowls, they can keep most of them scheduled for evening hours for more TV viewership (it's hard to watch independence bowl or new mexico bowl when it's at 3 or 4pm and people are still at work), and there won't be as many bowls competing at the same time = better TV numbers = more $$$ = happy stupid execs.

the only downside is less average/mediocre teams get those extra bowl practices but they don't deserve them and they can spend their time on finals and coaches can go recruiting (doesn't it make sense that the average/down-year coaches should have more time to recruit to improve their team anyways?) or ADs can have more time to coach search...and less crappy 6-6 coaches can win the no-one-cares bowl and somehow finagle another year to drive a team in the ground lol.

The main issue with doing away with all of the Bowl games in lue of a 16 game playoff system is that it will kill the sport, since the Bowl system makes up the backbone of what is college football. Only way that a 16 game playoff system would be able to replace the Bowl system is if you throw out the neutral site garbage.

Only way it would work is if the NCAA modeled the new system after the NFL's system in which the highest seed gets to play at home. The only neutral site game should be where the Championship Game is being held.

Personally I would like to see the Bowl system kept in tact to a certain degree, but just slimmed down so that Bowl games actually mean something again. Right now its as if anyone can get into a Bowl game. Don't get me wrong I would still like to see a playoff system implemented as well, but I just don't want to see the entire system scrapped.

Perhaps have the Top 8 teams in the Top 25 rankings have a playoff, then teams 9-24 would play in the bowl games, team 25 is left out in the cold. This way there will be a playoff system for a clear National Champion, and then all of the other teams will be able to get in a bowl games.

Best of both worlds.

i didn't propose removing the bowl system, only the 8-10 lower tier bowls. the first round of the playoff bracket for 16 teams would be 8 games, and that is 8 bowls right there (new mexico, st. pete, kraft hunger, pinstripe, godaddy, little caesars, birmingham bowl, boise potato bowl) that can be eliminated, and the teams can all "move up" a few spots to the "better bowls" that are left over. the playoff system would still use the 4 bcs locations, and it would overall improve the remaining bowls since they'll be better consolations and will be 2-loss to 4-5 loss teams, not 6-6 teams.

[BDYZR]

Back to the future? Remember when a 5th BCS bowl was forced into the rotation?