Villanova and expansion

[USFMikeB]

That's the program/team that many USF fans are clamoring for....

That's not an accurate statement.

[Bullshutter]

Actually, Villanova isn't even close to the Top teams attendance wise in Div I-AA.

From 2009 Div I-AA Attendance Leaders:

Rank School G Attendance Average

1. Montana: 24,417

2. Appalachian St.:  24,004

3. Yale:  21,245

4. Delaware:  20,750

5. Old Dominion: 19,782

6. N.C. A&T: 17,219

7. South Carolina St.: 17,027

8. Ga. Southern: 16,728

9. North Dakota St.: 16,515

10. Jackson St.:  16,334

11. James Madison:  15,305

12. Liberty:  14,931

13. Tennessee St.:  14,462

14. Youngstown St.: 14,054

15. Southern U.:  13,817

16. Montana St.: 13,283

17. South Dakota St.: 13,265

18. Citadel: 13,029

19. UNI: 12,969

20. McNeese St.: 12,948

21. Florida A&M: 12,490

22. Texas St.: 12,488

23. Jacksonville St:  11,502

24. Ark.-Pine Bluff:  11,112

25. Stephen *. Austin:  11,111

26. Furman:  10,973

27. Norfolk St.: 10,950

28. Massachusetts:  10,887

29. Harvard:  10,701

30. Penn: 10,600

Remember, Philadelphia is the only city to EVER have its BCS Football Program "kicked out" because of terrible support (on the field and in the stands) yet some folks think Nova will suddenly draw fans when they haven't bothered to come out for games as of yet...and the much larger local school (Temple) was kicked out of the conf because of weak support.

Interesting point... the author makes a claim with his 5th bullet point on page 17 that with any given scenerio, they'd expect between 18k-22k per game.... I wonder why they would predict such a higher number from what is seen on their current level......  I see in the link below that they averaged approx 8k in 2006

http://www.scribd.com/doc/334171/2006-National-College-Football-Attendance-NCAA

[Bullpride08]

Actually, Villanova isn't even close to the Top teams attendance wise in Div I-AA.

From 2009 Div I-AA Attendance Leaders:

Rank School G Attendance Average

1. Montana: 24,417

2. Appalachian St.:  24,004

3. Yale:  21,245

4. Delaware:  20,750

5. Old Dominion: 19,782

6. N.C. A&T: 17,219

7. South Carolina St.: 17,027

8. Ga. Southern: 16,728

9. North Dakota St.: 16,515

10. Jackson St.:  16,334

11. James Madison:  15,305

12. Liberty:  14,931

13. Tennessee St.:  14,462

14. Youngstown St.: 14,054

15. Southern U.:  13,817

16. Montana St.: 13,283

17. South Dakota St.: 13,265

18. Citadel: 13,029

19. UNI: 12,969

20. McNeese St.: 12,948

21. Florida A&M: 12,490

22. Texas St.: 12,488

23. Jacksonville St:  11,502

24. Ark.-Pine Bluff:  11,112

25. Stephen *. Austin:  11,111

26. Furman:  10,973

27. Norfolk St.: 10,950

28. Massachusetts:  10,887

29. Harvard:  10,701

30. Penn: 10,600

Remember, Philadelphia is the only city to EVER have its BCS Football Program "kicked out" because of terrible support (on the field and in the stands) yet some folks think Nova will suddenly draw fans when they haven't bothered to come out for games as of yet...and the much larger local school (Temple) was kicked out of the conf because of weak support.

Interesting point... the author makes a claim with his 5th bullet point on page 17 that with any given scenerio, they'd expect between 18k-22k per game.... I wonder why they would predict such a higher number from what is seen on their current level......  I see in the link below that they averaged approx 8k in 2006

http://www.scribd.com/doc/334171/2006-National-College-Football-Attendance-NCAA

By virtue of the competition level.  A deep difference between playing Colgate in football and Syracuse.  SU will bring and pull 2-4k alone...1-AA teams do not travel like that.

Again, this is a semantical argument...ridiculous and irrelevant...as any UCF and USF fan knows getting around the tix sales.  Not to mention this is all about televisions, scheduling, dilution, and perceptions.  Arguing around it will not make it any different.

It's very simple.  If you are Uconn who would you rather have as a football member- UCF or Nova?  If UCF is added their olympic sports would get a split of the pie on that side, thus increasing our total to 18 teams.  UCF would be economic neutral in what they would bring, nothing positive, or negative. 

Nova now is the same as UCF in terms of they're economically neutral-- one could argue they bring a bigger tv market, but who cares.  But Nova means the BE, and Uconn and others could stay at 17 teams and not 18...thus we'll get less of the split of the pie for Olympic teams.  That means less money for us.

SO, shall we end economics 101 now folks.  Nova means more money for us, UCF means less.  If all things were equal then you take the one that takes less money out of your pocket.  Anyone debating that UCF brings more to the table is ignorant, and simply debating opinions on semantics...a useless proposition.

For the attendance theorist...the Nova v. Temple game had ticket sales of 33k.  Their current stadium only holds 12,500, and they often seat it to capacity.  Roll in a healthy dose of BE teams sprinkled in with in-state and city rivals Temple, and Penn and they'll easily meet the NCAA mandate...don't believe me then just call your athletic departments at USF and UCF and they'll tell you how they fudged those 'actuals' to meet NCAA regs. 

[abababa]

In terms of perception and fan interest give me ECU or UCF 100 times out of 100 over Nova.

[Knight_Light]

Update from ESPN this afternoon:

Big East Commish: "We're not waiting for Villanova"

The Big East has announced its plans to expand to 10 teams. Villanova is currently undergoing a study to determine whether it will move up to the FBS level and join the Big East, and that process is expected to be completed in April.

The two timelines, however, do not necessarily intersect.

See link for article

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/38615/marinatto-were-not-waiting-for-villanova

[Bullshutter]

Update from ESPN this afternoon:

Big East Commish: "We're not waiting for Villanova"

The Big East has announced its plans to expand to 10 teams. Villanova is currently undergoing a study to determine whether it will move up to the FBS level and join the Big East, and that process is expected to be completed in April.

The two timelines, however, do not necessarily intersect.

See link for article

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/38615/marinatto-were-not-waiting-for-villanova

Does anyone else get confused by the article KL posted or is it just me?  Not sure if I'm thinking too much or not enough over it.  The Commish comes out and says we want 10 teams but Villanova has an open ended invitation, while keeping door open for other schools like UCF & Co who could potentially accept a bid first.  I guess what confuses me is that if we offer someone else before Villanova's deadline, would that mean we'd now be open to 11+ teams or withdraw Villanova invite?

[813knight]

Update from ESPN this afternoon:

Big East Commish: "We're not waiting for Villanova"

The Big East has announced its plans to expand to 10 teams. Villanova is currently undergoing a study to determine whether it will move up to the FBS level and join the Big East, and that process is expected to be completed in April.

The two timelines, however, do not necessarily intersect.

See link for article

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/38615/marinatto-were-not-waiting-for-villanova

Does anyone else get confused by the article KL posted or is it just me?  Not sure if I'm thinking too much or not enough over it.  The Commish comes out and says we want 10 teams but Villanova has an open ended invitation, while keeping door open for other schools like UCF & Co who could potentially accept a bid first.  I guess what confuses me is that if we offer someone else before Villanova's deadline, would that mean we'd now be open to 11+ teams or withdraw Villanova invite?

The Big East Commish was a little more talkative in this piece. What I think happens.....UCF or maybe Houston is invited before April for all sports to join in 2012. If Nova decides to move up they will probably be ready in 2014 or 2015 and than the Big East invites ECU(2014) as a Football only to get to 12 Football Playing Members and have a Conference Championship Game. If Nova declines than they probably stay content with 10 unless the Big Ten gets hungry down the road

[Guest nybullsfan]

11

Nova's invite is good until May, even if the BE expands again before that.

[JuicedBull]

ECU, Houston, Nova = 12 teams and Championship Game

Do It

[Danm1983]

Even if Nova were to double in attendance (to say 18,000), and every big East team brought 5,000 fans (which is stretching it - but I could see RU, SU, UConn, Pitt, and maybe WVU traveling that well), they'd still be far under attended. I know there isn't a real "rule" or "floor" that has to be met, but that's **** pitiful. UCF/ECU/hell Memphis would bring near double that just on their fans alone. I like Villanova, but I don't trust their 9,000 enrollment, and low attendance to suddenly skyrocket. But if they want a Vanderbilt/Duke/Rice doormat to help the academic perception in football and add a boat load of TV sets, then so be it. Otherwise, I'll take one of the UCF/ECU/Houston picks to get decent markets and far better on field products.