Villanova and expansion

[SRQ]

if the BE football schools split, Nova becomes an even better fit

[Kizarvexis]

The Philadelphia TV market? Ha! That worked well with Temple.

I'd argue college football crazy markets like Birmingham , Orlando, or New Orleans would be more beneficial than Philadelphia who Is probably one of the worst college football markets inthebleachers country.

Well it's a good thing your not involved in the television negotiations because that's not the point.  The point is within the Philly market there are a number of BE fans, as well as Nova fans, that would subscribe or take interest in viewing a Big East network.  Adding Nova would assure the Big East would grab a portion of those fans.  Whether it translate to more actual viewership remains to be seen, what is a fact is the Big East can walk into negotiations explaining they have a football footprint in the fourth largest television market in the United States.  That will translate to more dollars.  And please don't make me explain the differences in network deals when Temple was a member and where they are today, or the fact when Temple was a member it was 'football only' so BE fans in philly only had a passing interest in Temple.  Not to mention as a 1-AA member Nova's attendance was nearly as high as Temple's as a 1-A team.

That is the point and whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant because it's what the networks are buying.  Claiming you're going to B-ham, New Orleans, Memphis, or Orlando in lieu of Philly because they're more 'rabid' is comical because the schools within those markets that could be available for the BE to take UCF, UAB, Tulane, or Memphis don't own their markets and derive any more interest in their community toward their program than Nova does to Philly- there are far more UF, FSU fans in Orlando than UCF.  So using that sound philosophy you simply defer to the largest television market which is Philly. 

Bullpride,

It's as simple as this. The market is worth crap if the demand doesn't exist.

Let's look at the recent Big 10 expansion...they could have taken anyone they wanted and for good reason, they have their own network already.

They didn't take Rutgers and the NY market, opting for Nebraska? Why? Because the NY market wasn't really worth it because there is very little interest in college football.

There is borderline interest for football in Philly. No one shows for Nova games, no one shows for Temple games, no one watches (one of the lowest rated big markets for college football)

And to back it all up, Nova basketball would demand any future BE network be on their local cable lineup.

Your football contracts are worth a lot more in the football crazy southern markets, which is why the SEC demanded a 18 mil a year, Texas got their own network for 13-15 mil a year, etc.

I understand those pale in comparison to what the BE could demand, but the point is they could demand more if football is the focus of their network and it's advertising.

The Big East has tried football in Philly once, and they tried to make it stay. It just didn't work.

Ok, a little background to make sure I'm on the same page.

Basically Bullpride08 is arguing that bringing Nova up to I-A football makes sense in marketing a Big East Network (BEN) to the TV suits. It would bring in the Philly market in a bigger way, because it would be for BE football and BE basketball instead of just for BB.

Basically Joe is arguing that there is not enough interest in Nova FB to justify the above argument and bringing in another southern school from C-USA would bring more eyes to the TV.

Guys, am I essentially correct on the above summaries? If so, I think I agree a little bit with both of you.

As I understand it, Penn St (main campus located in Central PA I believe) has the most fans in PA and Pitt is a close second. Since Temple is in Philly as well, I'm not sure that Nova will command a large following in FB, although according to Bullpride08, they are doing as well as Temple in FB even tho Nova is I-AA. I guess the question is are there enough Nova BB fans, who aren't already fans of Nova FB, to increase the Nova FB fanbase?

Now, TV suits care about the Benjamins. Really, really care about Benji. So are there enough Nova FB fans, of all stripes, to get the Philly subscriber TV companies to demand access to the BEN? It doesn't matter if there are more rabid fans down south, if enough Nova fans get the Philly subscriber TV companies to pay for BEN, then the bigger Philly market would be better than a smaller market down south.

I guess it comes down to what Nova and the BE can show to the TV suits about getting Philly to buy BEN. And what the TV suits opinions about I-A vs I-AA FB are in relation to Benji's for themselves. Because TV suits really like Benji.

[Bullshiznitz]

Personally I think trying to get Nova to make the jump is more about the long term for the Big East than the short term.  More or less I believe this is a primary move to eventually go to a 12 team Big East that can split from the basketball only schools.  By adding Nova for football, you maintain the majority of the power teams in basketball (Nova, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU), and then provide the opportunity to add 2 of Houston/UCF/Memphis to complete the conference.  A conference of:

North:

WVU

Syracuse

UConn

Nova

Pitt

Rutgers

South:

Louisville

USF

UCF

TCU

Cincy

Memphis

Is still probably the best basketball conference, and a pretty solid football conference that would have TV exposure in a lot of huge markets (NYC, Jersy, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, Orlando, Tampa, Dallas/Ft Worth)

[South_Florida_Flip]

tcu would beat them 70-0

how is that good for big east

WVU beat Rutgers like 70-0 about 6 or 7 seasons ago. How good is that for the Big East?

[Danm1983]

I think chasing some of the biggest markets in the nation is almost a lost cause. Looking at the biggest cities in the US, most of them are pro-centric, and while there will be eyes on college football in each of those cities, they are more of a conglomerate style of fans than a dedicated base.

1. NYC - dunno the breakdown, but in addition to Syracuse and Rutgers, you have UConn, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc fans spread throughout. No college football team will ever claim NYC (though I'd say Syracuse comes the closest from time to time). NYC belongs to the Knicks, Jets, Giants, and Yankees.

2. Chicago - wow, DePaul is doing so well in that market!  : Northwestern, Illinois, and Notre Dame may have some claim, but that city still loves its Sox, Cubbies, Bears, and Bulls.

3. Los Angeles - LA is a special case. They can actually claim to be a college-centric city. The Dodgers and Lakers rule all, but because they run in different parts of the year, UCLA and USC garner the football viewers. LA has no pro team (for now). Looking back at when LA DID have a pro team in the Raiders or Rams, and the college teams were in the back burner, though they still shined because the LA football teams weren't around long enough to garner established fan bases.

4. Philly - Temple and Villanova are rather small schools, and neither have really had the high level success to win over their city. The Eagles, 76ers, and Flyers dominate that town, and the massive amount of Pitt/Penn State/other fans will never allow it to work.

5. Dallas/Ft. Worth - another special case, as pro teams dominate the state, but because it's such a football heavy state, UTexas and A&M and other teams can also be big favorites. TCU and SMU have always had some historical followings, but they won't ever outshine the bigger teams. TCU is currently holding some limelight with their winning ways (and Texas is down), but who knows how long that lasts.

[SpikeBull]

Additionally football games would be scheduled for 7p.m. Saturday evening.

By doing so we incur off-peak traffic. This would allow for late afternoon

tailgating for visiting parents, fans and alumni but mitigate the impact on local

traffic conditions.

Page 32 included this little nugget talking about traffic mitigation.

Do they even follow Big East football?

The first line would have greater truth if it had read "would NOT be scheduled".

[South_Florida_Flip]

Personally I think trying to get Nova to make the jump is more about the long term for the Big East than the short term.

It's exactly what the move is and that is fine by me. If Villanova were given the time to recruit and build to join the league by 2014, then they would be in a decent position.

Not sure that moving to 12 teams is a good move for the league.

[DontPushMe]

Those of you who are mad that Nova is going to join the conference are really struggling to see the bigger picture. If Nova declines, in all likelyhood UCF will end up invited to our conference, which regaurdless of what any of you think, is bad for USF.

For that reason alone, i badly want nova to move up.

On top of that, this helps in a split. Theyll be our Duke or Northwestern.

[Bullshutter]

Additionally football games would be scheduled for 7p.m. Saturday evening.

By doing so we incur off-peak traffic. This would allow for late afternoon

tailgating for visiting parents, fans and alumni but mitigate the impact on local

traffic conditions.

Page 32 included this little nugget talking about traffic mitigation.

Do they even follow Big East football?

The first line would have greater truth if it had read "would NOT be scheduled".

I saw that....  i'm sure the author is just trying to further his case with a little truth bending.  On the plus side, their campus is well served by mass transit.

[Jihme]

usf, ul, wvu and pitt to the acc.  problem solved, and a better situation.