Villanova and expansion

[South_Florida_Flip]

Those of you who are mad that Nova is going to join the conference are really struggling to see the bigger picture. If Nova declines, in all likelyhood UCF will end up invited to our conference, which regaurdless of what any of you think, is bad for USF.

I don't think it's a lock that anyone gets an invite if 'Nova declines.

10 teams in the goal, but there in no timetable for it.

[The Sheriff]

Screw Villanova! I'd rather play our little ugly sister to the East in a meaningful game every year than some bottom feeder program out of Philadelphia that is years away from being competitive. I love hearing the banter of our little sisters on the message boards leading up to the game only for it to end similar to this clip...

[South_Florida_Flip]

some bottom feeder program out of Philadelphia that is years away from being competitive.

I'm pretty sure that was the same thing said of UConn and their move up to Division 1 A and the Big East.

[usf97]

I keep hearing from those....that they would rather have UCF or Houston over Villanova.

Look I understand....Villanova is not a great football invite.....but then UCF is?!? I mean, will USC, Texas or Florida fan suddenly go.....

"Wow, look at what the Big East has done! They are no longer the worst BCS AQ conference....I mean they invited UCF.....that will make them a powerhouse."

Inviting UCF, Houston, ECU, Marshall, Temple......or Nova.....will do nothing from a football perception standpoint.

If the BE were seriously trying to offset that.....they would offer Boise State a football only invite to get out of the conference hell they find themselves in. Or they would sell the farm to get Notre Dame to come over.

Doesn't sound like either of those options are on the table.....so if you have to go to 10....then invite Nova....at least they are family. If they say no....then you go outside the family and put the invite on the market.

[Bullshutter]

I keep hearing from those....that they would rather have UCF or Houston over Villanova.

Look I understand....Villanova is not a great football invite.....but then UCF is?!? I mean, will USC, Texas or Florida fan suddenly go.....

"Wow, look at what the Big East has done! They are no longer the worst BCS AQ conference....I mean they invited UCF.....that will make them a powerhouse."

Inviting UCF, Houston, ECU, Marshall, Temple......or Nova.....will do nothing from a football perception standpoint.

If the BE were seriously trying to offset that.....they would offer Boise State a football only invite to get out of the conference hell they find themselves in. Or they would sell the farm to get Notre Dame to come over.

Doesn't sound like either of those options are on the table.....so if you have to go to 10....then invite Nova....at least they are family. If they say no....then you go outside the family and put the invite on the market.

well said.... organic growth > inorganic growth

[South_Florida_Flip]

Inviting UCF, Houston, ECU, Marshall, Temple......or Nova.....will do nothing from a football perception standpoint.

If the BE were seriously trying to offset that.....they would offer Boise State a football only invite to get out of the conference hell they find themselves in. Or they would sell the farm to get Notre Dame to come over.

The Big East already got their program from the perception standpoint when they got TCU.

I said a while back that the next invite would not be a move based solely on perceptioon, but one that will help with the Big East tv network. This next piece is all about TV $$$$$$.

[deters-]

http://brynmawr.patch.com/articles/villanova-looks-like-it-may-be-big-east-bound-for-football

"Villanova is buying up residential property in Delaware County and Montgomery County along County Line Road, adjacent to Villanova Stadium. The Wildcats’ coaching staff has shown increased interest in a number of major Division I recruits—the type of players Villanova may have not gone so strongly after in the past, thinking those players would commit to Division I schools."

[Bullpride08]

The Philadelphia TV market? Ha! That worked well with Temple.

I'd argue college football crazy markets like Birmingham , Orlando, or New Orleans would be more beneficial than Philadelphia who Is probably one of the worst college football markets inthebleachers country.

Well it's a good thing your not involved in the television negotiations because that's not the point.  The point is within the Philly market there are a number of BE fans, as well as Nova fans, that would subscribe or take interest in viewing a Big East network.  Adding Nova would assure the Big East would grab a portion of those fans.  Whether it translate to more actual viewership remains to be seen, what is a fact is the Big East can walk into negotiations explaining they have a football footprint in the fourth largest television market in the United States.  That will translate to more dollars.  And please don't make me explain the differences in network deals when Temple was a member and where they are today, or the fact when Temple was a member it was 'football only' so BE fans in philly only had a passing interest in Temple.  Not to mention as a 1-AA member Nova's attendance was nearly as high as Temple's as a 1-A team.

That is the point and whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant because it's what the networks are buying.  Claiming you're going to B-ham, New Orleans, Memphis, or Orlando in lieu of Philly because they're more 'rabid' is comical because the schools within those markets that could be available for the BE to take UCF, UAB, Tulane, or Memphis don't own their markets and derive any more interest in their community toward their program than Nova does to Philly- there are far more UF, FSU fans in Orlando than UCF.  So using that sound philosophy you simply defer to the largest television market which is Philly. 

Bullpride,

It's as simple as this. The market is worth crap if the demand doesn't exist.

Let's look at the recent Big 10 expansion...they could have taken anyone they wanted and for good reason, they have their own network already.

They didn't take Rutgers and the NY market, opting for Nebraska? Why? Because the NY market wasn't really worth it because there is very little interest in college football.

There is borderline interest for football in Philly. No one shows for Nova games, no one shows for Temple games, no one watches (one of the lowest rated big markets for college football)

And to back it all up, Nova basketball would demand any future BE network be on their local cable lineup.

Your football contracts are worth a lot more in the football crazy southern markets, which is why the SEC demanded a 18 mil a year, Texas got their own network for 13-15 mil a year, etc.

I understand those pale in comparison to what the BE could demand, but the point is they could demand more if football is the focus of their network and it's advertising.

The Big East has tried football in Philly once, and they tried to make it stay. It just didn't work.

Ok, a little background to make sure I'm on the same page.

Basically Bullpride08 is arguing that bringing Nova up to I-A football makes sense in marketing a Big East Network (BEN) to the TV suits. It would bring in the Philly market in a bigger way, because it would be for BE football and BE basketball instead of just for BB.

Basically Joe is arguing that there is not enough interest in Nova FB to justify the above argument and bringing in another southern school from C-USA would bring more eyes to the TV.

Guys, am I essentially correct on the above summaries? If so, I think I agree a little bit with both of you.

As I understand it, Penn St (main campus located in Central PA I believe) has the most fans in PA and Pitt is a close second. Since Temple is in Philly as well, I'm not sure that Nova will command a large following in FB, although according to Bullpride08, they are doing as well as Temple in FB even tho Nova is I-AA. I guess the question is are there enough Nova BB fans, who aren't already fans of Nova FB, to increase the Nova FB fanbase?

Now, TV suits care about the Benjamins. Really, really care about Benji. So are there enough Nova FB fans, of all stripes, to get the Philly subscriber TV companies to demand access to the BEN? It doesn't matter if there are more rabid fans down south, if enough Nova fans get the Philly subscriber TV companies to pay for BEN, then the bigger Philly market would be better than a smaller market down south.

I guess it comes down to what Nova and the BE can show to the TV suits about getting Philly to buy BEN. And what the TV suits opinions about I-A vs I-AA FB are in relation to Benji's for themselves. Because TV suits really like Benji.

You don't need to settle anything because there is no debate.  Nova is being added, or at least at this point invited, because they provide three essential things to the BE that no other available program provides (which I mentioned above), 1. eliminate dilution of cashflow in the BE on the hoops and olympic sports side; 2. provide the 3rd biggest television market; 3. and lastly it provides a 10th team to help with football scheduling, but not an 18th team to hoops to cause scheduling issues.

Those are it...joe's initial assertion was agreeing with smazza that nova won't be competitive and their only benefit is they keep UCF out.  I merely explained that they offer more advantages such as a large television market to offer up to the television suits (which you obviously agree with), scheduling help, and eliminate dilution.

He then proceeds to argue with zero shred of fact about opinions why certain television markets are better, and Nova isn't good in their market-- oh and see Temple.  All opinions, some that are grounded but none tie in or can substantially discredit the fact Nova brings the Philly market (how much is the only debate), and that has some value (how much is the debate but it definitely brings value).  So all joe's arguing is semantics about how much...which I will not engage in because it's useless.  We know it brings value on the tv side, and it is important.  

If anyone can deliver the Big East a program that owns its region's television market and one that is large, AND is willing to jump to the BE and would bring dollars to the bottom line where dilution made sense...then call Marinatto ASAP.  Hey Jamie Dixon called him about TCU so they're all ears, but they already know about UCF, Memphis, and ECU, and they already know those guys bring a smaller television market then Nova, and they can illustrate no greater control over those televisions than Nova has on Philly's.  The fact is UCF, ECU, Memphis, Marshall...all the usual suspects do not own their markets any more than Nova theoretically 'owns' Philly (albeit I would argue Nova hoops has a strong footprint in Philly and that will help translate better to football then the others).  SO, since none bring any accretive solutions to the bottom line the BE first turns to Nova.  Adding Nova is like income improvement without adding costs for the BE, the fact football can bring the Philly television market into it's next television negotiations is a positive (how positive is debatable but it is a positive), and Nova doesn't dilute the cash flow splits on the olympic sport side, and they settle scheduling with out massive travel constraints that will already been bumping up the burden with the addition of TCU.

The rest is just trying to argue semantics....

[South_Florida_Flip]

You don't need to settle anything because there is no debate.  Nova is being added, or at least at this point invited, because they provide three essential things to the BE that no other available program provides (which I mentioned above), 1. eliminate dilution of cashflow in the BE on the hoops and olympic sports side; 2. provide the 3rd biggest television market; 3. and lastly it provides a 10th team to help with football scheduling, but not an 18th team to hoops to cause scheduling issues.

Agree with you on #1 and #2, but I am not sure how they help with #3.

I haven't seen it mentioned but my assumption is that the Big East would look into 9 conference games if/when the 10th team was added? I'm not sure I would be in favor of this idea if they wanted it.

[DELdaBull]

Get that MONEY!!!!!!!!