Versions of the truth?....

[Bullpride08]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

[MavTechKNIGHT2]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.  And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.  And I would suggest the story about Moffett is a fabrication because it gives a negative view about GO from one player that never panned out and GO told him like it was.  There are many kids on this team and many others in O'Leary's tenure that would go to bat for him any day.  Add in their parents and it is easy to see why the guy has so much respect amongst his peers.  Which also shows you that respect by his peers was the ONLY reason he got hired anywhere after Syracuse.  If he sucked like most coaches do, everyone would have looked at his resume and figured out the error long ago.  But it didn't happen for 20 years or so because nobody looked at the **** thing.

Man, this place is freaking BORING nowadays.  haS.Been still has a hardon for anything O'Leary and doesn't understand when his 4 hours of Levitra are up.  Get over it, dude.  O'Leary is building something here.  Go try to cry on someone's shoulder about losing Green and Dixon to South Carolina.  Nice.

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

[MavTechKNIGHT2]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

One other thing that strikes me about your comments....

To say someone is negligible for someone's death would be a pretty serious offense.  If that was the case, I would think "others" may be involved yet I have not heard any criminal charges being filed.  And nobody in the UCF athletic department is happy about what happened idiot.  If there were any truth to any of the stuff you are spouting, there would have been over ONE HUNDRED witnesses to it.

****, you're dumb.

[Bull Dozer]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.  And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.  And I would suggest the story about Moffett is a fabrication because it gives a negative view about GO from one player that never panned out and GO told him like it was.  There are many kids on this team and many others in O'Leary's tenure that would go to bat for him any day.  Add in their parents and it is easy to see why the guy has so much respect amongst his peers.  Which also shows you that respect by his peers was the ONLY reason he got hired anywhere after Syracuse.  If he sucked like most coaches do, everyone would have looked at his resume and figured out the error long ago.  But it didn't happen for 20 years or so because nobody looked at the **** thing.

Man, this place is freaking BORING nowadays.  haS.Been still has a hardon for anything O'Leary and doesn't understand when his 4 hours of Levitra are up.  Get over it, dude.  O'Leary is building something here.  Go try to cry on someone's shoulder about losing Green and Dixon to South Carolina.  Nice.

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

ROFL @ the end of this post.  

Green and Dixon are still verbals and committed to USF and CJL's team hung 60plus on O'Leary's team in their last meeting (and is 3-0 against O'Leary) and beat them like a rented red headed mule.  Now please STFU and GTFO.  

[Goldenbuc]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

GOL did tell the Sentinel what happend as did UCF...who was also investigating.  The Sentinel decided to take their own agenda and create a "bigger" story and wanted dirt...not facts.  Someone did die on his watch and he feels fully responsible.  What should he do...or better yet...what would you prefer?  UCF fire GOL...and GOL turn himself in for neglecting a kid's condition in order to push him harder?  That's not the case...and even if so...not criminal.  If UCF's medical staff or doctor's...or even his parents though EP's condition wasn't good enough to play...then he shouldn't and wouldn't have.  It's over.  If the Sentinel went on a possitive direction and just took UCF's press release as it was...you'd cry conspiracy!!  There's no winning with some of you...and you don't have any control over the situation...so stop worrying about something you can't do anything about.

I'm not defending what happend and wish it never did...and I can tell you that everyone involved with the UCF football team feels the same.  GOL gave his release and the Sentinel did what they thought would be better for the paper.  They pushed and pushed...but haven't been able to dig anything...so instead..they pursued the Plancher family and now there's a law suit.  But since the Plancher family knew of their son's condition...it's their permission that was granted for him to play.  He (EP) knew of his condition, too. 

The big question I have is if GOL really knew of his condition, in the first place.  If not...then there's an issue.  If anything was kept from him...there's a problem.  These kinds of conditions would have to be known by all staff....maybe GOL did know...but wasn't aware of the consequences and may have not pushed him as much as he did.

The fabrication was going after other's not relative to the story and the Sentinel tried to go with the "GOL is too hard and abusive" angle...instead of the actual story that was released.  That's what GOL was angry about with the OS, more than anything.  Instead of covering the story...they wanted to bury the coach...even before any full reports were released...including the autopsy.

Nobody's getting fired and nobody is going to jail.  Now...go kiss your Leavitt shrine picture...blow out the candles around it and go sleep with your stuffed "Rocky" doll.

[SANJAY]

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.  And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.  And I would suggest the story about Moffett is a fabrication because it gives a negative view about GO from one player that never panned out and GO told him like it was.  There are many kids on this team and many others in O'Leary's tenure that would go to bat for him any day.  Add in their parents and it is easy to see why the guy has so much respect amongst his peers.  Which also shows you that respect by his peers was the ONLY reason he got hired anywhere after Syracuse.  If he sucked like most coaches do, everyone would have looked at his resume and figured out the error long ago.  But it didn't happen for 20 years or so because nobody looked at the **** thing.

Man, this place is freaking BORING nowadays.  haS.Been still has a hardon for anything O'Leary and doesn't understand when his 4 hours of Levitra are up.  Get over it, dude.  O'Leary is building something here.  Go try to cry on someone's shoulder about losing Green and Dixon to South Carolina.  Nice.

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

Hey if the 4 players are fabricated then why didn't GOL dispute that in his letter/column in the OS?  You would think he wuold at least mention it.

[Bullpride08]

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.  And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.  And I would suggest the story about Moffett is a fabrication because it gives a negative view about GO from one player that never panned out and GO told him like it was.  There are many kids on this team and many others in O'Leary's tenure that would go to bat for him any day.  Add in their parents and it is easy to see why the guy has so much respect amongst his peers.  Which also shows you that respect by his peers was the ONLY reason he got hired anywhere after Syracuse.  If he sucked like most coaches do, everyone would have looked at his resume and figured out the error long ago.  But it didn't happen for 20 years or so because nobody looked at the **** thing.

Man, this place is freaking BORING nowadays.  haS.Been still has a hardon for anything O'Leary and doesn't understand when his 4 hours of Levitra are up.  Get over it, dude.  O'Leary is building something here.  Go try to cry on someone's shoulder about losing Green and Dixon to South Carolina.  Nice.

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

Hey if the 4 players are fabricated then why didn't GOL dispute that in his letter/column in the OS?  You would think he wuold at least mention it.

That's the joke of it SANJAY...O'Liar knows those kids exist.  The Sentinel would never fabricate such stuff.  And these idiots, like mavprick, and goldenboy fail to rationalize is that O'Liar isn't even a smart liar.  In his original version of events, a version he had released to the Sentinel....he stated the workout as 'non-taxing' and said he noticed nothing out of the ordinary with EP.  Once those 'fabricated' kids suddenly showed up O'Liar's 'sketchy memory' suddenly got  a jolt of reality.  Then he remember singling out EP, telling him or someone that 'EP is better then that', and then when he seemed to be struggling he said, 'has he had any breakfast'.  I don't fault O'Liar because clearly he's not aware that a kid with SCT, if he's struggling, breakfast isn't what's needed.  It was the trainers.

But I love how Mav, and so many other UCF fans 'presume' or tell us, as if it was some factual foregone conclusion, that these players were 'fabricated', ask them why, and they just say 'because'....but the Sentinel wouldn't jeopardize countless jobs, and a major lawsuit since the entire athletic and editorial staff has pushed this story, on the back of some 'fabricated' story by 4 players...then there response is something coined like 'that's how they report by making up the news'....

I mean this is the BS we're dealing with...your defense or evidence that these players are made up is based on 'becauses' and 'opinions'.  Typical UCF fans.  Funny, UCF can be found culpable based on negligence without anything to do with the players.  If a UCF fan says the Sentinel 'sensationalized' this story, then I am with you, if you say they over-dramatized and possibly over-demonized O'Leary, even then I kinda follow you....but to say they 'frabricated' the story well then you're just a foolish dolt that isn't interested in reality and only wants to hear BRANDON HELDORKS "Dontwantnuttinbuttagoodtime" website and web-updates.

[Triple B]

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.

:ROFLMAO

And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.

You mean the way UCF's stories changed about the incident? Must mean they fabricated also ....

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

We never had a "Dungeon". It was "The DUMBgeon" in honor of you guys ...

[ZeroBullChip]

How is O'Leary at any more fault than any other coach that has had a player die on his watch of the same type?  He isn't.  Maybe is not as cuddly as Bowden or as Cunning as Meyer....but there's no difference.  GOL didn't treat Plancher any differently than any other player.

I do think that it should have and could have been avoided in some way.  But I couldn't tell you how.

We don't know if O'Leary is more at fault.  It may be that everyone did exactly as they were supposed to, O'Leary included. 

It may be that O'Leary ran off the trainers, or wouldn't let them treat Plancher.

It may be that O'Leary has intimidated the training staff in the past, and for that reason they didn't intervene until it was to late.

It may be that no one on the coaching or training staff were told he carried the trait, or were not told the warning signs to look out for and what actions to take.

It may be that other coaches and/or trainers weren't doing their job.

The attorneys for the family are attempting to get those questions answered.

Precisely.  And why do UCF'ers always presume it comes down to the world v. O'Leary.  This might have been a case where doctors failed to properly notify UCF's training staff and coaches of EP's condition or failed to explain how to do deal with it if they did tell them.  It's still ultimately culpability to UCF, and some extreme changes would need to come about at UCF, but it's not all about O'Leary.  O'Leary has become the focal point because of his brash attempt to challenge the newspaper, and because he clearly made some serious missteps in his early depictions of the events, for whatever reason he omitted, or lightened the details somewhat.  It probably wasn't intentional, but given the fact UCF really bumbled along in the first two weeks, almost making it impossible for the Sentinel to not vigorously investigate, with mis-quotes, misleading statements, inaccurate depictions of the workout, stand-offish attitudes, and generally not open and informative. 

Again, I contend that Hitt and Tribble look more inept not making a few wholesale changes in USAA to at least the SID, and AD in charge of football.  They clearly mishandled this from the beginning and it made UCF look even worse then any issues dealing with the workout, like they were hiding something.   At this point it's like sticking up the finger to everyone even when you know people on your side are wrong.  Not a good move, or sign.

Then why aren't they questioning the other coaches?  That's my question?  You seem to ask....where was who when it happend?  Why did he not do this or do that?  Those same questions could be asked of all the coaches, including your own.

O'Leary did talk to the Sentinel and the Sentinel decided to run their own story.  Even Jerry Greene said so on his radio show with Mike Bianchi....the sentinel wanted to post their own agenda and fabricated their own story to sell papers.

There you go with that word again, 'fabrication'.  Again please point to a piece that has been purely fabricated.  There is some sensationalism but fabrication is to suggest that certain undeniable facts by UCF were not true...i.e. 1. EP passed out and died during a UCF Football training;  2. EP had a condition known as Sickle Cell Trait; 3.  Someone at UCF knew about EP's condition, and was aware of the condition by which they had to monitor EP; 4. The level of conditioning, could have led to EP's cardiac arrest, or more so given the level of conditioning there are some versions of events that suggest UCF could have or possibly didn't monitor EP closely enough given the level of conditioning for that day.

Those four points are freely admitted to by your University (reluctantly on #4, and not to the level I suggested of course).  There is no fabrication within those points, but there are gray areas that can decide a level of culpability.  I mean in the end UCF is ultimately responsible just like USF is for Dorsey....someone died on their watch and no one in the athletic department can be happy about that.  But negligence, culpability can weigh more heavily if people knew about a player's condition and did nothing about it.  THat is the area of truth the Sentinel is trying to uncover...and thus far they haven't fabricated anything.

GOL did tell the Sentinel what happend as did UCF...who was also investigating.  The Sentinel decided to take their own agenda and create a "bigger" story and wanted dirt...not facts.  Someone did die on his watch and he feels fully responsible.  What should he do...or better yet...what would you prefer?  UCF fire GOL...and GOL turn himself in for neglecting a kid's condition in order to push him harder?  That's not the case...and even if so...not criminal.  If UCF's medical staff or doctor's...or even his parents though EP's condition wasn't good enough to play...then he shouldn't and wouldn't have.  It's over.  If the Sentinel went on a possitive direction and just took UCF's press release as it was...you'd cry conspiracy!!  There's no winning with some of you...and you don't have any control over the situation...so stop worrying about something you can't do anything about.

I'm not defending what happend and wish it never did...and I can tell you that everyone involved with the UCF football team feels the same.  GOL gave his release and the Sentinel did what they thought would be better for the paper.  They pushed and pushed...but haven't been able to dig anything...so instead..they pursued the Plancher family and now there's a law suit.  But since the Plancher family knew of their son's condition...it's their permission that was granted for him to play.  He (EP) knew of his condition, too. 

The big question I have is if GOL really knew of his condition, in the first place.  If not...then there's an issue.  If anything was kept from him...there's a problem.  These kinds of conditions would have to be known by all staff....maybe GOL did know...but wasn't aware of the consequences and may have not pushed him as much as he did.

The fabrication was going after other's not relative to the story and the Sentinel tried to go with the "GOL is too hard and abusive" angle...instead of the actual story that was released.  That's what GOL was angry about with the OS, more than anything.  Instead of covering the story...they wanted to bury the coach...even before any full reports were released...including the autopsy.

Nobody's getting fired and nobody is going to jail.  Now...go kiss your Leavitt shrine picture...blow out the candles around it and go sleep with your stuffed "Rocky" doll.

Here is the thing that you and your dimwitted knhight fan friends can't seem to understand.  You don't have a clue what o'leary said to anyone.  You can't defend his actions in any way.  The sentinel can report what factual/sourced information they have and fill in the blanks to a reasonable degree.  That's what journalism is.  But this is between O'leary, our court system, the planchers, and God....  You have no basis for anything.  While were at it, the same argument goes with your schools and fans delusions of granduer about your athletic competency as a university.  Your programs are marginal at best and that includes your "championship" winning football team.  All empirical evidence points as such no matter how many marketing blitzes Brandon, his minions, and your incompetent athletic department can shoot....

It's going to be fun watching your football team fail yet again this season.  The only thing better than watching a great team lose is watching one that only thinks its great lose...

[MavTechKNIGHT2]

The fabrication is in the fabricated story of the 4 players.  They don't exist.  And "their" stories have changed in small ways since the first article ran.  And I would suggest the story about Moffett is a fabrication because it gives a negative view about GO from one player that never panned out and GO told him like it was.  There are many kids on this team and many others in O'Leary's tenure that would go to bat for him any day.  Add in their parents and it is easy to see why the guy has so much respect amongst his peers.  Which also shows you that respect by his peers was the ONLY reason he got hired anywhere after Syracuse.  If he sucked like most coaches do, everyone would have looked at his resume and figured out the error long ago.  But it didn't happen for 20 years or so because nobody looked at the **** thing.

Man, this place is freaking BORING nowadays.  haS.Been still has a hardon for anything O'Leary and doesn't understand when his 4 hours of Levitra are up.  Get over it, dude.  O'Leary is building something here.  Go try to cry on someone's shoulder about losing Green and Dixon to South Carolina.  Nice.

BRING BACK THE DUNGEON!!!!

Hey if the 4 players are fabricated then why didn't GOL dispute that in his letter/column in the OS?  You would think he wuold at least mention it.

That's the joke of it SANJAY...O'Liar knows those kids exist.  The Sentinel would never fabricate such stuff.  And these idiots, like mavprick, and goldenboy fail to rationalize is that O'Liar isn't even a smart liar.  In his original version of events, a version he had released to the Sentinel....he stated the workout as 'non-taxing' and said he noticed nothing out of the ordinary with EP.  Once those 'fabricated' kids suddenly showed up O'Liar's 'sketchy memory' suddenly got  a jolt of reality.  Then he remember singling out EP, telling him or someone that 'EP is better then that', and then when he seemed to be struggling he said, 'has he had any breakfast'.  I don't fault O'Liar because clearly he's not aware that a kid with SCT, if he's struggling, breakfast isn't what's needed.  It was the trainers.

But I love how Mav, and so many other UCF fans 'presume' or tell us, as if it was some factual foregone conclusion, that these players were 'fabricated', ask them why, and they just say 'because'....but the Sentinel wouldn't jeopardize countless jobs, and a major lawsuit since the entire athletic and editorial staff has pushed this story, on the back of some 'fabricated' story by 4 players...then there response is something coined like 'that's how they report by making up the news'....

I mean this is the BS we're dealing with...your defense or evidence that these players are made up is based on 'becauses' and 'opinions'.  Typical UCF fans.  Funny, UCF can be found culpable based on negligence without anything to do with the players.  If a UCF fan says the Sentinel 'sensationalized' this story, then I am with you, if you say they over-dramatized and possibly over-demonized O'Leary, even then I kinda follow you....but to say they 'frabricated' the story well then you're just a foolish dolt that isn't interested in reality and only wants to hear BRANDON HELDORKS "Dontwantnuttinbuttagoodtime" website and web-updates.

As I type I am asking myself why I am wasting my time.

How would the Sentinel jeopardize anything by saying they have anonymous sources?  You are an idiot.  And why would GO address the 4 players when that isn't even HIS biggest beef?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fabricated

Read the link.  To fabricate is not to lie necessarily but to make something up.  And they attempted to make something more of the story that was not there.

If the Sentinel was a good paper, when the original story of the players came out and they said EP's eyes were turning black or whatever they said, why didn't the Sentinel ask the players for information as to why they never tried to help EP?  I mean, the way the Sentinel says it, those players knew he was about to die.  So, if they wanted to find out the real story with what happened, they would have questioned those players more (assuming they exist) than they did.  But, in the end, they only wanted to destroy O'Leary.

And with ALL of their resources, they couldn't do it.  For VERY OBVIOUS reasons.

Which is why none of you actually get it.

BRING BACK THE **** DUNGEON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!