Is USF football growing on Tampa Bay fans?

[HaulingBull Sucks]

To little! ;D  I was an early Charter Subscriber...and as I remember the tickets cost $15....other were $12, and $8.

If the support wasn't there then why did they add an extra home pre-season game....could it have been the fact that the Bucs were able to sell more than other NFL teams and Culverhouse knew how to suck every last dime he could out of the fans.

Tampa was hungry for something to do on Sunday afternoon.

Then you should remember...bucs tixs were going for that price when comparable cities were selling them for $5 to $15 more for a comparable city but many feared that Tampa was to small and working class to support the higher tickets which was why the extra games, and exhibition stuff Culverhouse pulled.  Additionally once the team started losing those fans folded into the woodwork, and by 1978 you could pick your seat when you attended a game.  By the middle of 79' when they pulled themselves out of the muck fans hopped back on the bandwagon.

No, I honestly believe it wasn't until around when Dungy arrived, or rather Hugh passed away and new ownership took over and actually put money and time into the team and marketing, did Tampa Bay finally really embrace the Bucs.  Look at this season 4-12 and nearly every seat was still occupied on the final home game- well more like 5/6.  Go back to 1981 when the team starting skidding again and you were lucky to see 25k in attendance.  No one cared, it was an afterthought.

My recollections are a bit different than yours...there were never empty seat (to speak of) in my section...By the time 76 rolled around there weren't any $15 seats left at least not in the west stands...$12 season tickets weren't plentiful either...I don't remember a game in 1978 that my section or the sections near me weren't full...my row was tightly pack for every game...one to many oversized people in a row made it rather cozy on a hot day those old aluminum benches.  

A friend of mine moved to Tampa in 78 and couldn't get decent season tickets.

As far as disposable income...there was plenty of it across the pond in Pinellas....in fact traffic was very heavy heading east on the Howard Frankenstein on game days...if attendance was as poor as you say, then why was Dale Mabry backed up and the parking lots full of tailgaters?  TSA, and HCC lots were always backed up.

[Triple B]

The NFL has was popular back in the day...

But it wasn't as popular because:

just not as many teams as there are today and not as much TV and marketing of team gear

.

Tell someone oldtimer from Green Bay that the NFL wasn't as popular in the 60's as it is today.

Or you could tell that to an old timer in Tampa, Seattle, Jax, Charlotte, etc and you'd get an entirely different answer.  8-)

[HaulingBull Sucks]

I'd say it's bigger, not  "more popular".

Do gangbangers wearing team gear make the game more popular?

[Triple B]

I'd say it's bigger, not  "more popular".

I may be wrong but to be more "popular" means that more people are aware of it and follow it. Not sure what your definition of "popular" is...

[HaulingBull Sucks]

I'd say it's bigger, not  "more popular".

I may be wrong but to be more "popular" means that more people are aware of it and follow it. Not sure what your definition of "popular" is...

Was the support for an expansion franchise better in the 90's than it was in

70's or 80's.  

How about the support for established teams...individual fans vs corporate.

[Bullpride08]

To little! ;D  I was an early Charter Subscriber...and as I remember the tickets cost $15....other were $12, and $8.

If the support wasn't there then why did they add an extra home pre-season game....could it have been the fact that the Bucs were able to sell more than other NFL teams and Culverhouse knew how to suck every last dime he could out of the fans.

Tampa was hungry for something to do on Sunday afternoon.

Then you should remember...bucs tixs were going for that price when comparable cities were selling them for $5 to $15 more for a comparable city but many feared that Tampa was to small and working class to support the higher tickets which was why the extra games, and exhibition stuff Culverhouse pulled.  Additionally once the team started losing those fans folded into the woodwork, and by 1978 you could pick your seat when you attended a game.  By the middle of 79' when they pulled themselves out of the muck fans hopped back on the bandwagon.

No, I honestly believe it wasn't until around when Dungy arrived, or rather Hugh passed away and new ownership took over and actually put money and time into the team and marketing, did Tampa Bay finally really embrace the Bucs.  Look at this season 4-12 and nearly every seat was still occupied on the final home game- well more like 5/6.  Go back to 1981 when the team starting skidding again and you were lucky to see 25k in attendance.  No one cared, it was an afterthought.

My recollections are a bit different than yours...there were never empty seat (to speak of) in my section...By the time 76 rolled around there weren't any $15 seats left at least not in the west stands...$12 season tickets weren't plentiful either...I don't remember a game in 1978 that my section or the sections near me weren't full...my row was tightly pack for every game...one to many oversized people in a row made it rather cozy on a hot day those old aluminum benches.  

A friend of mine moved to Tampa in 78 and couldn't get decent season tickets.

As far as disposable income...there was plenty of it across the pond in Pinellas....in fact traffic was very heavy heading east on the Howard Frankenstein on game days...if attendance was as poor as you say, then why was Dale Mabry backed up and the parking lots full of tailgaters?  TSA, and HCC lots were always backed up.

Hauling Bull you do realize Dale Mabry was four lanes there at the time?

I can assure you during those 78 seasons they were not sold out often....but i often enjoy individuals such as yourself that use the scientific theory that your section was full.  The games were not, the announced attendances never equaled capacity, I went to a few in 77 and 78 and 2/3'rds was about right.  People might have held season tickets but they treated it like many season tix holders of USF hoops tickets do, they only go when the big games are played.

Pinellas having a disposable income?  Since when?  I really question your knowledge of the bay area, in 1974 Pinellas was known more for it's trailer parks then high income wealth.  It's grown up, and a larger middle income population has sprouted up, but that county has yet to support it's baseball team.

As for the Central Division it was partly because they had only four teams and the east wasn't taking the Bucs.  As for the flipping of colors, I've seen it alot but I think that things changed moreso in the 80's when tickets were far more prevelant and fans from the Central would travel in hords to Tampa, and area people would organize enjoyable tailgates for that purpose "Packer Backers" is the big one for the Pack.

Again, I will contend that it wasn't until the new ownership and the Dungy area did Tampa full embrace the Bucs.  Stastics and pricing speak for themselves.  As for ticket pricing, jesus man you could pick up $25 tickets in 92', and now you're telling me in 1978 there was almost no tickets in the $12-15 range?  What Buc tickets were you buying?

It takes time in the Bay Area as anyone will tell you especially the Bucs, Lightning, and Devil Rays.  Partially because we just aren't that big of a metro area- sure if you count the 5-6 county MSA we're considered big, but really that 2 county area is not the size of these other bigger cities that have the depth in income, and citizens to support 4-5 pro teams and 2-3 good college programs like Dallas/Ft. Worth, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Atlanta, Philly, Chicago, Detroit/Ann Arbor, Houston.... I'd say the only cities that control pro football franchises that are smaller from a metro standpoint and density standpoint, and area median income standpoint are New Orleans, Jacksonville, Nashville from a size and density standpoint but their median income is way higher than Tampa's.  Also notice those cities aren't required to support 3 pro teams and a BCS program...only Nashville has close with 2 and a BCS.  Facts are facts.

USF will grow because it will not rely exclusively on Tampa for support whereas the Bucs do not...I know over a dozen fans that regularly attend Bulls games that travel from Orlando or greater.  It will take time for the alumni support to grow and galvanize but it's starting to happen.  People inside the program realize this, the best gauge is donor dollars and those continue to skyrocket upward for USF, attendance is improving from a core fan standpoint and with the right fuel it will take off.

[Bullpride08]

I'd say it's bigger, not  "more popular".

I may be wrong but to be more "popular" means that more people are aware of it and follow it. Not sure what your definition of "popular" is...

Was the support for an expansion franchise better in the 90's than it was in

70's or 80's.  

How about the support for established teams...individual fans vs corporate.

yes to all of the above...the support now is better back then.  It's almost to blatant to argue.

[Don Toro]

My recollections are a bit different than yours...there were never empty seat (to speak of) in my section...By the time 76 rolled around there weren't any $15 seats left at least not in the west stands...$12 season tickets weren't plentiful either...I don't remember a game in 1978 that my section or the sections near me weren't full...my row was tightly pack for every game...one to many oversized people in a row made it rather cozy on a hot day those old aluminum benches.  

A friend of mine moved to Tampa in 78 and couldn't get decent season tickets.

[table][tr][td]Attendance

09/12/1976      0-20      L      @      HOUSTON             42228

09/19/1976      0-23      L            SAN DIEGO      39558

09/26/1976      9-14      L            BUFFALO                44505

10/03/1976      17-42      L      @      BALTIMORE     40053

10/10/1976      0-21      L      @      CINCINNATI     40700

10/17/1976      10-13      L            SEATTLE                43458

10/24/1976      20-23      L            MIAMI                  61437

10/31/1976      19-28      L            KANSAS CITY      41779

11/07/1976      13-48      L      @      DENVER               61703

11/14/1976      0-34      L      @      N.Y. JETS         46427

11/21/1976      7-24      L            CLEVELAND       36930

11/28/1976      16-49      L      @      OAKLAND             49590

12/05/1976      0-42      L      @      PITTSBURGH    43385

12/12/1976      14-31      L            NEW ENGLAND   41517[/td][/tr][/table]

It looks too me like there were around 20K empty seats on average.

'78 was a lot better, but there were still games with 20K+ empty seats.

[table][tr][td]09/02/1978      13-19      L            N.Y. GIANTS      67456

09/09/1978      7-15      L            DETROIT      64445

09/17/1978      16-10      W      @      MINNESOTA      46152

09/24/1978      14-9      W            ATLANTA      58073

10/01/1978      7-24      L            MINNESOTA      65972

10/08/1978      30-13      W      @      KANSAS CITY      38201

10/15/1978      14-17      L      @      N.Y. GIANTS      68025

10/22/1978      33-19      W            CHICAGO      68146

10/29/1978      7-9      L      @      GREEN BAY      55108

11/05/1978      23-26      L      @      L.A. RAMS      55182

11/12/1978      23-34      L      @      DETROIT      60320

11/19/1978      31-10      W            BUFFALO      61383

11/26/1978      3-14      L      @      CHICAGO      42373

12/03/1978      7-17      L            GREEN BAY      67754

12/10/1978      3-6      L      @      SAN FRANCISCO      30931

12/17/1978      10-17      L            NEW ORLEANS      51207[/td][/tr][/table]

[HaulingBull Sucks]

Again, I will contend that it wasn't until the new ownership and the Dungy area did Tampa full embrace the Bucs.  Stastics and pricing speak for themselves.  [highlight]As for ticket pricing, jesus man you could pick up $25 tickets in 92',[/highlight] and now you're telling me in 1978 there was almost no tickets in the $12-15 range?  What Buc tickets were you buying?

a.  We weren't  talking about 92, so why bring it up.

b.  As I stated before I was a Charter Season Ticket Holder.  I believe I commited to them in 1975.  When did you purchase season tickets?

c.  During the time frame we were discussing my section was full as was everything else in the west stands that was visable from my seat.  The most common complaint (aside from playing calling) I heard was the overcrowed aluminum benches.  Carrying your own orange and white Bucco Bruce stadium  seat to the games was the only way to fly.

When I attempted to purchase additional season tickets in early 1978 I was told that there weren't any available - at least not on the west (home) side.  The best that were available were $12 seats near the 10 yd line.

BTW, Stock brokers did very well in Pinellas county...

It takes time in the Bay Area as anyone will tell you especially the Bucs, Lightning, and Devil Rays.

a. Tampa wasn't  exactlly a hotbed for hockey...few natives knew the difference between a hockey puck and a plug of tabacco..Oh! and the product was rather weak and poorly managed.

b. The Devil Ray!  Namoli...need I say more.

 

USF will grow because it will not rely exclusively on Tampa for support whereas the Bucs do not...I know over a dozen fans that regularly attend Bulls games that travel from Orlando or greater.  It will take time for the alumni support to grow and galvanize but it's starting to happen.  People inside the program realize this, the best gauge is donor dollars and those continue to skyrocket upward for USF, attendance is improving from a core fan standpoint and with the right fuel it will take off.

People traveled from Orlando, Sarasota, and even farther for Bucs games..as I recall the couple in the seats next to mine were from either Naples or Marco Island.

Did you ever travel the H Frankenstein on game day back in the early days?  I did.

How many Bucs games did you attend during the 76, 77, and 78 seasons?

The attendance (butts in seats) at the Bulls games has been rather stagnant....the donor dollars may be way up but ticket sales haven't

[HaulingBull Sucks]

The Bulls would kill for attendance like this.

09/02/1978      13-19      L            N.Y. GIANTS      67456

09/09/1978      7-15      L            DETROIT      64445

09/24/1978      14-9      W            ATLANTA      58073

10/01/1978      7-24      L            MINNESOTA      65972

10/22/1978      33-19      W            CHICAGO      68146  

11/19/1978      31-10      W            BUFFALO      61383

12/03/1978      7-17      L            GREEN BAY      67754

12/17/1978      10-17      L            NEW ORLEANS     51207