Fire Coach Scott

[Triple B]

23 hours ago, zarnozdabull said:

The worst thing that has happened to CJS - besides not winning - is the fact that USF football has proven in past examples that it doesn’t take an eternity to build a competitive team with our program if done right.

Regardless of those that say “we don’t have a winning culture,” CJL was able to build literary from nothing to a competitive BCS team - with no OCS, IPF, mass financial support, etc. - while only have two losing seasons in 13 years. CWT also came in to incredibly similar circumstances to CJS - a downward spiral of a once good team - to build a competitive double-digit win ranked football team through basically recruiting alone starting year 3. Had the examples of CJL and CWT never happened, then maybe the fanbase would be satisfied with being perpetual losers with no hope, but history has shown that is not the case. The football team under CJS, though he’s a nice guy, just seems like it has no hope. Did some fans in the prediction contest actually pick Temple to beat us? Worst of all, it might actually happen - year 3 into a coaching tenure. To think there isn’t a head coach in the lower levels willing to move to Tampa Bay and lead USF to moderate success the way CJS has shown he is unable to do is shortsighted. 

Honestly, and I know I'm kind of committing heresy here, but CJL isn't a very good comparison. The miraculous work he did was an entirely different animal than what CJS's up against. "Cash" is the one who showed what could be done after the "devastation" of losing Jim and the BCS/P5 membership ...... Now it's just a matter of if CJS can ultimately do it, too and that's where all the disagreement is. Some are positive he can't, some haven't given up hope that he can ...

[Brad]

So recovering from the Holtz New Error is a tougher task than coaching a startup from pre-birth to BCS play?  Or are you just trying to go full apples to apples?

[Triple B]

8 minutes ago, Brad said:

So recovering from the Holtz New Error is a tougher task than coaching a startup from pre-birth to BCS play?  Or are you just trying to go full apples to apples?

Apples to apples. What CJL did was infinitely harder .....

[Brad]

Thanks for the clarification, and who's "Cash"? 

[Triple B]

55 minutes ago, Brad said:

Thanks for the clarification, and who's "Cash"? 

It shouldn't have needed clarification. I assumed the "miraculous" description of what CJL did would been enough .... troll.

[12inchtaint!]

21 hours ago, Triple B said:

Apples to apples. What CJL did was infinitely harder .....

In 1996, the internet was a shell of what it is today. There was no social media, no easy way to send/receive/browse video other than vhs.  CJL had the entire bay area and local media behind him.  He was able to find kids who in todays time would go to a mid level P5 program and keep them here.  Same with Miami for him- he was able to go down there and get the guys who didnt get taken by UF, FSU, and UM- there were not 30 other top tier programs all over them like there are now. 

So while I think CJL is the best we have ever had and that he did a wonderful job and wish he still had some association with USF, building something similar now/starting from where Holtz left us was a lot harder- add in the breakup of the Big East and being left behind and that multiplies the difficulty by 2x.

[Triple B]

1 hour ago, 12inchtaint! said:

In 1996, the internet was a shell of what it is today. There was no social media, no easy way to send/receive/browse video other than vhs.  CJL had the entire bay area and local media behind him.  He was able to find kids who in todays time would go to a mid level P5 program and keep them here.  Same with Miami for him- he was able to go down there and get the guys who didnt get taken by UF, FSU, and UM- there were not 30 other top tier programs all over them like there are now. 

So while I think CJL is the best we have ever had and that he did a wonderful job and wish he still had some association with USF, building something similar now/starting from where Holtz left us was a lot harder- add in the breakup of the Big East and being left behind and that multiplies the difficulty by 2x.

Willie already did it, Chuck didn't sustain it. What CJL did on the field is/was unprecedented for a start-up program, although I do get the advantages you pointed out (although not really feeling the whole bay area and media being behind him thing) but we're not asking CJS to get us to #2 again. We're just asking him to get back to the upper echelon of the G5's.

I do understand that it's sometimes easier starting from scratch than having to rebuild out of a hole so "infinitely" harder may be a bit much. It was definitely harder, though, for CJL to get the program where he did on the field than where we're asking CJS to take us right now.

[CousinRicky]

1 hour ago, Triple B said:

Willie already did it, Chuck didn't sustain it. What CJL did on the field is/was unprecedented for a start-up program, although I do get the advantages you pointed out (although not really feeling the whole bay area and media being behind him thing) but we're not asking CJS to get us to #2 again. We're just asking him to get back to the upper echelon of the G5's.

I do understand that it's sometimes easier starting from scratch than having to rebuild out of a hole so "infinitely" harder may be a bit much. It was definitely harder, though, for CJL to get the program where he did on the field than where we're asking CJS to take us right now.

I'll play straight man here for you.

Must not have been harder since CJL did it and CJS hasn't.

And you're response is (think back to a presidential or maybe vice presidential debate):

[Triple B]

4 minutes ago, CousinRicky said:

I'll play straight man here for you.

Must not have been harder since CJL did it and CJS hasn't.

And you're response is (think back to a presidential or maybe vice presidential debate):

[thekidnapper]

CJL also had zero expectations* when he started and 10 years to get there.

 

*If I remember, the older residents were hoping for the 1970's UT program levels of success.