Summer Workouts ?s

[No_Willie_Jokes_Yet]

I know it's not conditioning," USF coach Jim Leavitt said. "I don't believe any one runs more than we do."

That doesnt sound like he was saying he OVERCONDITIONED them, he didnt think conditioning had ANY effect on the cramping....

Truth be damned is right...

[No_Willie_Jokes_Yet]

I should note you caught me in a work weekend where I am stuck at the computer and looking for ANY reason to do something other than write my paper....

[S p e n c e]

Overconditioning LOL

[Guest S.  Bien]

Truth be damned? What truth?

A tsunami could wipe out the practice facilities and coach Leavitt will say its his fault. He's in charge and that's the way things go with him. What he says and what is reality CAN be two different things. You said it was his OPINION, that's still different from the TRUTH.

OK, let me get this straight.  The coach's honest to goodness reason for why his players were cramping is more of an opinion than some people on this board looking for a reason to conjure up with zero fact, and zero reasoning.   For some odd reason I'm going to take Leavitt's opinion far more than anyone on this board.   Especially since the candid comments came at a very private, personal appearance where he told a few of us over dinner.  These were not the scripted media comments.

Oddly, for those that look for a reason to tear down the program I seem to have given them a much better reason then conditioning.    

Well at least I didn't call anyone 'ignorant'.

[No_Willie_Jokes_Yet]

OK, let me get this straight.  The coach's honest to goodness reason for why his players were cramping is more of an opinion than some people on this board looking for a reason to conjure up with zero fact, and zero reasoning.   For some odd reason I'm going to take Leavitt's opinion far more than anyone on this board.   Especially since the candid comments came at a very private, personal appearance where he told a few of us over dinner.  These were not the scripted media comments.

Oddly, for those that look for a reason to tear down the program I seem to have given them a much better reason then conditioning.    

Well at least I didn't call anyone 'ignorant'.

Its kind of funny that once I posted every article on the subject with quote from the coach that NOW you state the comments are from a "Private personal conversation".   I think that says about all there is to say on this subject.

I wasnt tryign to conjure up somehting to hurt or tear down this program. Those supplements were LEGAL. The university in the article I wrote about was the University of Tennessee, it was a FACT that it happened to them and it didnt HURT them other than the losss. Other university football programs also had this same problem around that time period. I just put it out there as a viable hypothesis.  The teams who were taking those supplements STOPPED and the CRAMPS STOPPED.

[smazza]

what will our excuse be after happy valley debacle?

[Ricky the Bull]

What will your excuse be if it's not a 'debacle'.

[BullDoug]

Being at that game, I just would like to add that the heat & humidity were brutal on that day.  I would go as far to say one of the worst conditions to play a game I've been associated with.  USF's sideline was in the sun the whole game while 'Bama enjoyed the shade in the second half.  I saw two people from the stands taken away on stretchers and the concessions ran out of ice in the "Bull's fans" endzone if I recall correctly.

Another factor is 'Bama did out weigh our DLs by 20-30 lbs.  The Bull overall depth was also lacking compared to 'Bama.  Those are extremely significant factors.  The rain that yr. made for some of the most temperant "two-a-days" probably experienced in the Tampa Bay area in a long while which leads back to conditioning.  Our boyz weren't used to that heat.

IMO, it's believeable that over conditioning could of played into the equation it CJL pushed the team to the brink two weeks before the game but IMO it was just being in the heat the whole game, being undersized, inexperience and maybe expelling to much energy getting to "jacked" before the game and first quarter and lest not forget the all important home field advantage.

As for weight loss, losing 3-5% body weight water is not unusual in the Southeast.  As a 208 lb HS linebacker, I would lose 5-8 lbs during two-a-days.  My body fat ratio was in the 8-10% range too at the time.  I would eat 4 meals & 2 snacks a day to maintain weight.  I still was under 200 lbs by the first game.

Another personal experience was when I was playing ball in WV.  I found it amusing that the VA & WVA players would be ******** over the heat & humidity during 2adays.  It was only 88 F with no more than 85% humidity.   The practices were physically challenging but there wasn't any heat for the FL boyz (18-22) to complain about.

Anyway, in the second year we went down to Wolford College in NC.  It was hot and humid.  We jumped on them in the first half 17-7 if I recall.  Concord was the No. 1 rated defense in all categories in NAIA for two years.  We were small and extremely fast.  The final score was like 28-24.  Our lack of depth, home field advantage and the heat caught up with us.

These are major factors.  It's also why I believe a 14 pt lead is never safe in any game and I make my guests stay to the very end of all USF games so I can see the end.  However, on the reverse side of that, a 28 pt 4 qtr lead in nearly impossible to overcome.

[Bullpride08]

Its kind of funny that once I posted every article on the subject with quote from the coach that NOW you state the comments are from a "Private personal conversation".   I think that says about all there is to say on this subject.

I wasnt tryign to conjure up somehting to hurt or tear down this program. Those supplements were LEGAL. The university in the article I wrote about was the University of Tennessee, it was a FACT that it happened to them and it didnt HURT them other than the losss. Other university football programs also had this same problem around that time period. I just put it out there as a viable hypothesis.  The teams who were taking those supplements STOPPED and the CRAMPS STOPPED.

OK if you want to be a jerk, they were at a Tampa Bay Sports Club Meeting in which Jim Leavitt was the guest speaker, and was invited by Joe Tomaino who's a TBSC board member and also works for USF Marketing and Fundraising.  The TBSC is a gentlemen's club that costs $90 per meeting, weekly meeting and something like $650 annual dues.   If you'd like feel free to ask Joe Tomaino, or a few others that lurk on this board who attended the smallish event with about 30-40 gentlemen having dinner at Malio's in the bar- Jim sat and my table he made that statement to the crowd, then talked in more detail at our table while he was eating.  FYI, on the TBSC, they're looking for younger blood, and have moved the weekly dinner, and guest speakers to Flemings i believe.  Jim typically speaks three times a year, so does LRS, and McCullum.  Joe makes sure USF faithful will get their money's worth.

I've said this since the Bama game two years ago, so I've been extremely consistent, and Jim Leavitt says it about everytime anyone asks him about that game.  What you provided were the scripted media quotes.  Nowhere does it contradict my position they're just rather neutral media stuff Jim always provides.   As for your opinions that our team was using creatine- that could have been a contributing factor, however given the altered training schedule and practice schedule, and the coincidence that cramping occurred during that game i think Leavitt's theory holds water, but obviously creatine does effect players and it was probably a contributing factor for some of the players as to why they didn't bounce back as fast after the last hard workouts and two-a-days.    The combination of a few players on creatine and the practice schedule which severely broke down our players, not the creatine exclusive is what was damaging.  There were a lot of things against us in that game- poor training schedule, too little time for the team to recuperate, 100 degree heat on Legions Field, our team was in the sun for the entire game, Bama was generally larger than us across the lines....