A New Direction

[Triple B]

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

[Bull94]

 

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

 

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

 

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

what is? being a doormat?

 

all people seem to talk about is big east tv contract, big 12 payout, conference revenue etc.

 

I think fans and many administrators that are making these decisions are shortsighted. the schools are jumping for the money. no doubt. fans are the last consideration.

 

west virginia fans thinks things are gravy. they can't realisticly get to away games regularly. they might compete for a conference title once every 20 years or so. maybe win one every 30 years. they were winning their conference 4 out of every 6 years in BE. they were 1 game from national title. now they will be bottom half of big 12.that sucks.

 

but of course because the school jumped for more money they think they are better off. sure they'll get some good home games against traditional powers. maybe 1 a year but it will get old knowing they will get their teeth kicked in just about every time. like I've said  as a fan , give USF a legit chance to compete and an empty bank account over a stuffed bank account to be a doormat.

 

if it's for bowl tie ins then I feel sorry for them. I'd rather play ND at ND and experince their gameday atmosphere than play virginia tech in the orange bowl and pay $200 per ticket through the school to see an exibition game.

[Triple B]

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

 

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

 

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

what is? being a doormat?

Don't be stupid. The vast majority of USF FANS don't think the way you do. My guess is they want, and more importantly think USF can, to succeed on the highest level possible and the Big 12 is a higher level. Taking into consideration the age of our football program, the fact that we didn't finish higher than 3rd in the BE shouldn't be viewed as some definitive predictor on how how we'd do at a higher level. We're still in the growing process and moving to a conference like the Big 12 would definitely not have a negative impact on that process and I can't see how it wouldn't have a positive one.

[BaltoBull]

Why couldn't we win the Big 12? 

 

Note - there are other poster's comments and opinions though out this post. I got on a roll and didn't realize how much I was saying what has already been said. My apologies. 

 

Because ultimately, ESPN and the other networks have too much money invested in broadcasting these games and need to ensure 'brands' win the championship and 'brands' play in the big games. In the minds of the media and the public, the 'pecking order' has been established and is not changing anytime soon.

 

Far fewer people want to see USF win than Texas - this would especially be the case if we were in the B12. In the last ten years, Oklahoma has won the B12 5 times, Texas twice, Kansas State twice and Oklahoma State once.Those teams represent less than 1/2 of the conference. Given their budgets, facilities, fan bases, etc...do you really believe The University of South Florida is going to waltz into the B12 and win the conference any time soon?

 

The B12's interest in FSU is taking a team that 'moves the needle' in regards to revenue; the Noles are a team that belongs in the 'elite' category given their championships, fan base, brand recognition and merchandise sales. They are a team that will be regarded and treated as an 'equal'.

 

If the B12 were ever 'forced' to add USF, the priorities would change somewhat and I think the Bulls would just be thought of as an afterthought, a doormat, a way to expand the conference's footprint for television and as a way to gain access to Florida recruits. As Bull94 said, we would be lumped in with Kansas and Iowa State. As a fanbase, is this what we really want?

 

Furthermore, if you thought it was difficult trying to keep local talent from going to conference foes like Louisville, Rutgers and West Virginia; wait until they see Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State's fan bases, stadiums and facilities - not to mention K State's.

 

Let me add this, Texas and Oklahoma's budgets far exceed the rest of their conferences budgets. Michigan and Ohio State's budgets dominate the B10. Alabama and Florida's budgets are in the top 3 of the SEC's 12 teams. Oregon and USC are the top spenders of the PAC. When WVA was winning the Big East? Top budget. Louisville before they left for the ACC? Top budget.

 

Money wins championships. So what if we were to make more money in a 'big 4' conference? We will ALWAYS be behind - especially in a scheme like the B12's where Texas makes more than anyones else.

 

I believe USF got to taste the big time and have a chance to prove itself. It didn't happen. How many MILLIONS of dollars have we spent building this program without a championship (in the Big East, no less) to show for it, let alone our own stadium? It's time for us to get off the treadmill, stop burning money and time for us to reevaluate where we belong. This is a great opportunity to readjust our priorities and find a place where we can play and be competitive.

 

I'm sorry fans who want to thump their chest with Gators and Noles and say, "Yeah, we're in the same club, too". - We're not and we're not going to be. 

Edited January 25, 2013 by BaltoBull

[Bull94]

 

 

 

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

 

 

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

 

 

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

 

what is? being a doormat?

 

Don't be stupid. The vast majority of USF FANS don't think the way you do. My guess is they want, and more importantly think USF can, to succeed on the highest level possible and the Big 12 is a higher level. Taking into consideration the age of our football program, the fact that we didn't finish higher than 3rd in the BE shouldn't be viewed as some definitive predictor on how how we'd do at a higher level. We're still in the growing process and moving to a conference like the Big 12 would definitely not have a negative impact on that process and I can't see how it wouldn't have a positive one.

it wouldn't have a positive one if we became big 12 doormats which unfortunately would be more likely than us actually competing. anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional. one thing our "fans" have shown is that they will back a winner. even at a lower level. they don't show for losers.

 

we don't have the fanbase to back a doormat. we are not lovable losers. it would set our program back bigtime. sure texas and ou would draw the first time or two but when people realized we were the new iowa state or indiana then they wouldn't bother to come anymore. there is no way we are ready to compete with college football powers on a regular basis. sure we can get them on a game or two a year but not week in and week out.

 

I think we need to worry about competing and winning at a lower level first. maybe actually build our fanbase.

 

there is one caveat and that is i think a move to the ACC would be beneficial. i think we have shown that we could compete there. there would be some nice close away games. some better(although some really bad) football opponents. Big 12 woiuld be disatrous though, in my opinion.we just aren't ready as a program or fanbase. I would love for us to be and if we had shown anything in the big east then I would say maybe. look at WVU. even with a program that dominated the big east and a big 12 that is down as far as OU and texas are concerned and with what looked to be a top 10 team they barely went .500. imagine what would happen to us.hell texas a & m won 1 title in all the big 12 years. they are one of the richest programs in one of the best recruiting grounds. they leave for SEC and they already show they can compete at the top there.

 

recruits want to play for winners. fans want to cheer for winners. someday maybe( I think we will) we will be ready but definitely not today.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Bull94

[WoolyBully]

^

\_____ yep, that's it. That is the most realistic assessment I've seen thus far. We got knocked back to where we belong, and now it's up to us to make the most

of that opportunity. 

[Triple B]

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

 

 

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

 

 

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

 

what is? being a doormat?

 

Don't be stupid. The vast majority of USF FANS don't think the way you do. My guess is they want, and more importantly think USF can, to succeed on the highest level possible and the Big 12 is a higher level. Taking into consideration the age of our football program, the fact that we didn't finish higher than 3rd in the BE shouldn't be viewed as some definitive predictor on how how we'd do at a higher level. We're still in the growing process and moving to a conference like the Big 12 would definitely not have a negative impact on that process and I can't see how it wouldn't have a positive one.

it wouldn't have a positive one if we became big 12 doormats which unfortunately would be more likely than us actually competing. anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional. one thing our "fans" have shown is that they will back a winner. even at a lower level. they don't show for losers.

 

we don't have the fanbase to back a doormat. we are not lovable losers. it would set our program back bigtime. sure texas and ou would draw the first time or two but when people realized we were the new iowa state or indiana then they wouldn't bother to come anymore. there is no way we are ready to compete with college football powers on a regular basis. sure we can get them on a game or two a year but not week in and week out.

 

I think we need to worry about competing and winning at a lower level first. maybe actually build our fanbase.

 

there is one caveat and that is i think a move to the ACC would be beneficial. i think we have shown that we could compete there. there would be some nice close away games. some better(although some really bad) football opponents. Big 12 woiuld be disatrous though, in my opinion.we just aren't ready as a program or fanbase. I would love for us to be and if we had shown anything in the big east then I would say maybe. look at WVU. even with a program that dominated the big east and a big 12 that is down as far as OU and texas are concerned and with what looked to be a top 10 team they barely went .500. imagine what would happen to us.hell texas a & m won 1 title in all the big 12 years. they are one of the richest programs in one of the best recruiting grounds. they leave for SEC and they already show they can compete at the top there.

 

recruits want to play for winners. fans want to cheer for winners. someday maybe( I think we will) we will be ready but definitely not today.

 

As usual, you've veered off from our argument about the money your program makes being most fans priority over everything else ...

[Triple B]

^

\_____ yep, that's it. That is the most realistic assessment I've seen thus far. We got knocked back to where we belong, and now it's up to us to make the most

of that opportunity. 

 

I agree with that 100%. What I don't agree with, and what 94 is saying, is that if the totally improbable happens and the Big 12 issues an invite, we politlely decline and ask them to check back in 10 years or so.

[Bull94]

 

 

 

 

 

My point was that it seems some fans priority is how much money their program brings in.

Love to see some kind of evidence of that here, or with any other fanbase ....

 

 

 

go to national boards and see how many threads are started on how much their program is worth or how many threads on tv dollars for each league. or what bowls payout. etc etc

 

hell we have plenty on here.  I've argued with people that i'd rather stay in a c-usa/BE where we can compete rather than move to big 12 where we would never have a chance but there would be plenty more money.

 

people actually want to go to a conference that is nowhere near our region and where 2 teams virtually dominate. we would be like iowa state, oklahoma state, baylor, kansas, texas tech, missouri. we wouldn't sniff a conference title for 30 or 40 years but we would have bags of money and almost everyone one here begs for that to happen. west virginia made a huge mistake. they will be mediocre forever now. same with tcu. they both did and could have dominated their leagues for years to come.

 

 

 

You apparently don't have good grasp on the definition of "priority". Money is not the driving factor in those fans wanting to go to the Big 12 ...

 

 

what is? being a doormat?

 

 

Don't be stupid. The vast majority of USF FANS don't think the way you do. My guess is they want, and more importantly think USF can, to succeed on the highest level possible and the Big 12 is a higher level. Taking into consideration the age of our football program, the fact that we didn't finish higher than 3rd in the BE shouldn't be viewed as some definitive predictor on how how we'd do at a higher level. We're still in the growing process and moving to a conference like the Big 12 would definitely not have a negative impact on that process and I can't see how it wouldn't have a positive one.

 

it wouldn't have a positive one if we became big 12 doormats which unfortunately would be more likely than us actually competing. anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional. one thing our "fans" have shown is that they will back a winner. even at a lower level. they don't show for losers.

 

we don't have the fanbase to back a doormat. we are not lovable losers. it would set our program back bigtime. sure texas and ou would draw the first time or two but when people realized we were the new iowa state or indiana then they wouldn't bother to come anymore. there is no way we are ready to compete with college football powers on a regular basis. sure we can get them on a game or two a year but not week in and week out.

 

I think we need to worry about competing and winning at a lower level first. maybe actually build our fanbase.

 

there is one caveat and that is i think a move to the ACC would be beneficial. i think we have shown that we could compete there. there would be some nice close away games. some better(although some really bad) football opponents. Big 12 woiuld be disatrous though, in my opinion.we just aren't ready as a program or fanbase. I would love for us to be and if we had shown anything in the big east then I would say maybe. look at WVU. even with a program that dominated the big east and a big 12 that is down as far as OU and texas are concerned and with what looked to be a top 10 team they barely went .500. imagine what would happen to us.hell texas a & m won 1 title in all the big 12 years. they are one of the richest programs in one of the best recruiting grounds. they leave for SEC and they already show they can compete at the top there.

 

recruits want to play for winners. fans want to cheer for winners. someday maybe( I think we will) we will be ready but definitely not today.

 

 

As usual, you've veered off from our argument about the money your program makes being most fans priority over everything else ...

I was answering your comments about them believing we can compete and you thinking it would be better for us. I disagree on both and pointed out why.

[Bull94]

^

\_____ yep, that's it. That is the most realistic assessment I've seen thus far. We got knocked back to where we belong, and now it's up to us to make the most

of that opportunity. 

 

I agree with that 100%. What I don't agree with, and what 94 is saying, is that if the totally improbable happens and the Big 12 issues an invite, we politlely decline and ask them to check back in 10 years or so.

of course they wouldn't decline. where did I say they would decline?

 

I said it would be terrible for us. it would be shortsighted. the powers that be would be doing it for money. sure it would be worse for the fans but they aren't really a consideration anymore. it's all about tv and the almighty dollar. how else can we build ridiculous facilities and pay AD close to $1m. screw the athletes. screw the fans. let's get as much as we can.