Big 12 expansion again?

[Bull Martin]

ECU is desperate to get into this conference.

Every other other non-BCS University lobbied just as hard as ECU behind the scenes. (exceptions being BYU, Navy, Air Force, and Army)

[Who'sYourData?]

You may be right, but there remains little doubt this program has lost the reputation it once had for its quick rise. It has flattened if not turned down. That's basically what I initially said if you don't care to go back and read.

I really doubt that we are viewed that way in athletic circles. These guys have been in the business a long time. A conference like the ACC is going to perform a thorough review of an athletic program. The record you had last year is a ridiculously short sighted view. Our facilities are light years ahead of where they were even five years ago. We have five more years of strong attendence numbers. Our basketball team is far ahead of where it was five years ago. Our coaches pay has gone up significantly during that time as well.

Then look how many advances the academic side has made as well. We may not be an AAU institution, be we are at least at the edges of the conversation. You could have never said that five years ago. We are now turning down kids academically that we would have welcomed with open arms five years ago.

I seriously doubt that the ACC administration would look at USF and say, "they went 5-7 last year, write them off."

Some 20 year old fan might look at it that way, but a 50 or 60 year old businessman isn't going to evaluate on record alone. That would be foolhardy. USF is a far more viable program for the ACC today than it was five years ago.

[BullDoug]

I can solve the Big 12/WVU issue. Just have both football leagues merge - East and West - for a mega conference.

[cmhatter]

Not surprising, I don't think we are any longer viewed as a program on the way up.

we are not considered because we wouldn't add enough to the following:

1. TV deals

2. Bowl deals

3. Conference Prestige (academically or athletically)

Doesn't really have much to do with being on the way up. I'm sure you already know that though

We got into the Big East on potential, at least that's how I understand it (certainly not the three things you mention above). We sold the program on it's newness and rapid ascent. We added to that the potential for what we could do, what we could become.

You can deny the program has lost traction, that's fine. We stumbled in '04 and now in '11. Hopefully we right the program and become something attractive again and perhaps doors open again.

I can almost guarantee we didn't sell our program on 'newness'... We had a big media market with a basketball arena.

Pitching newness and rapid ascent would probably have gotten USF laughed out of the room. We will get better, Holtz has too. If he doesn't his career with be with mid-major teams. I don't think that is his desired career path.

I dont know if we will get this thing turned around quickly unless we can coach better and find a QB.

[Mission9]

"...see mediocre USF's record the last 5 years vs. ACC"

Gotta call you out on that one

Wins

North Carolina 2007

NC St 2008

Florida St 2009

Miami 2010

Clemson 2010

Losses

Miami 2009

Miami 2011

Unless I am missing something (which is probable), not sure I would consider 5-2 a mediocre record.

And on a side note, personally I can't wait to play the new teams. If things stay static I say we end up with a better conference than we had before, If Cincy/Louisville leave then we'll have to see what happens. I hope things stay together long enough for each of the new teams to make an appearance in RayJay

Please read my post again from the beginning. You just made my point for me. I was questioning the validity of our friend alluding to the perception that the ACC was better than the Big East. I was pointing out that a mediocre Big East team had done well against the ACC which you pointed out.

[Bull-by-Marriage]

"...see mediocre USF's record the last 5 years vs. ACC"

Gotta call you out on that one

Wins

North Carolina 2007

NC St 2008

Florida St 2009

Miami 2010

Clemson 2010

Losses

Miami 2009

Miami 2011

Unless I am missing something (which is probable), not sure I would consider 5-2 a mediocre record.

And on a side note, personally I can't wait to play the new teams. If things stay static I say we end up with a better conference than we had before, If Cincy/Louisville leave then we'll have to see what happens. I hope things stay together long enough for each of the new teams to make an appearance in RayJay

Please read my post again from the beginning. You just made my point for me. I was questioning the validity of our friend alluding to the perception that the ACC was better than the Big East. I was pointing out that a mediocre Big East team had done well against the ACC which you pointed out.

You posted "mediocre USF's record the last 5 years vs. ACC"...Apparently.... he read "USF's mediocre record the last 5 years vs. ACC". Some are quick to defend our program even if it doesn't need defending. I had to read your original post twice before undertsanding what you were saying.

[Mission9]

"...see mediocre USF's record the last 5 years vs. ACC"

Gotta call you out on that one

Wins

North Carolina 2007

NC St 2008

Florida St 2009

Miami 2010

Clemson 2010

Losses

Miami 2009

Miami 2011

Unless I am missing something (which is probable), not sure I would consider 5-2 a mediocre record.

And on a side note, personally I can't wait to play the new teams. If things stay static I say we end up with a better conference than we had before, If Cincy/Louisville leave then we'll have to see what happens. I hope things stay together long enough for each of the new teams to make an appearance in RayJay

Please read my post again from the beginning. You just made my point for me. I was questioning the validity of our friend alluding to the perception that the ACC was better than the Big East. I was pointing out that a mediocre Big East team had done well against the ACC which you pointed out.

You posted "mediocre USF's record the last 5 years vs. ACC"...Apparently.... he read "USF's mediocre record the last 5 years vs. ACC". Some are quick to defend our program even if it doesn't need defending. I had to read your original post twice before undertsanding what you were saying.

Yeah, I saw that too just today. I should have added "Big East team" after mediocre just to be clear.

[Brad]

Well, I don't think I said we got into the Big East solely on our being an up and coming team, nor did I say we would be excluded from any conference because of last year.

I think it's obvious to most that all things being equal a team that shows promise beats one that does not. It doesn't hurt to show rapid ascent compared to flatlining. Using the words of many Leavitt detractors we had (and have) "plateaued". A continued ascent would have been a much more favorable spot to be in. But I think that's common sense.

[cmhatter]

Jim took us where we needed to go. From a coaching standpoint I was a Leavitt fan and a proponent of him at least coaching out his deal.

I do agree though that we came to point where we needed a change(purely based on field results). We have not seen if that change worked for better or for worse yet.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Brad]

If Boise State had petered out in 2009 do we really think they would have been on the Big East radar in 2011-12?

Brad via BullPhone