S BIEN

[Bull94]

Geez, stop changing your argument.  I don't give a c--p about what either of them did for USF.  You said that top 100 talent wouldn't come to this university.  I'm proving a point that yes they will come to the university.  I don't know how much simpler to make this.

Why do you post on this board??.  You talk about the university that we all obviously love like we're some podunk tiny school in the middle of nowhere who can't even begin to dream of recruiting top players.  You obviously haven't been following this program very long or know what type of talent we've had here.

Beastie,

Sorry if I upset you. I didn't mean to suggest USF is some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Only that we have not put 1/10 the effort or money it takes to build an elite basketball program. The problems run much deeper than CRM's recruiting.

The top players Greenie recruited were all from the area and suspect characters to say the least. I'm sure the top schools in the country would not even consider taking a shot on Brown, Waldon, etc. Headcases one and all.

I think recruit rankings are overrated. Greenie was supposedly a god when it came to recruiting and that was the best he could do. We tried the me first superstar approach. I'm willing to try the "team" approach now.

Bringing in high ranked, borderline headcases didn't work for us. We might not ever be able to bring in the type of class guys Duke, UNC, UCONN etc bring in. We certainly shouldn't expect it now.

Maybe after we have a nice arena and we bring in 19,000+ fans per game. By the way we pay our coach like we are some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Try and give him some respect for working hard for peanuts.

I'm sure you do everything in your power to support USF basketball. Season tickets, donations, fan gear, etc. I appreciate that. One day hopefully we'll be able to say we were there when everyone gave up on USF basketball.

Remember the old days with Seth's big time recruits. Read on

http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/News/110801/Sports/Brittian_third_USF_pl.shtml

[The Sheriff]

UNC and UConn players are no better image wise than USF players. Rasaad McCants, Khalid El-Amin, and many others were thugs... problem is... when you're a thug that is winning, things get swept under the rug... when you're a thug that is floating above .500, your actions get magnified. Roy Williams said McCants is the most confused individual he has ever coached... McCants called playing at UNC like being stuck in a prison. Khalid El-Amin... hmm... should we even go there with the player of the year? Hell... UConn's coaches are constantly in the press for one thing or another... they are a bunch of whiners and hooker lovers!

[Velcro]

Isn't UConn's coach an Ex-USF coach?  

[Bull94]

UNC and UConn players are no better image wise than USF players. Rasaad McCants, Khalid El-Amin, and many others were thugs... problem is... when you're a thug that is winning, things get swept under the rug... when you're a thug that is floating above .500, your actions get magnified. Roy Williams said McCants is the most confused individual he has ever coached... McCants called playing at UNC like being stuck in a prison. Khalid El-Amin... hmm... should we even go there with the player of the year? Hell... UConn's coaches are constantly in the press for one thing or another... they are a bunch of whiners and hooker lovers!

TLVS,

You're definitely right about sweeping things under the rug. Winning makes everything look prettier.

I didn't phrase that correctly. I didn't mean class as in image wise but rather class as in talent level.

The only way I could see USF picking up a top 150 recruit is if he lived close to Tampa and wanted to stay close to home and/or had academic issues or character issues that a more established program might not be willing to take a chance on.

Those were the type that a very good recruiting SG could bring in. Borderline guys.

I think our new coach is going with a completely new philosophy. Nothing wrong with that but it will take time to impliment. Maybe he will take a shot on one of these types but it doesn't seem to fit his style.

There is a risk-reward associated with these guys. Sometimes they are not worth trying to build a team around. McCants was ranked #4 in the country. Brown was probably near the bottom of the top 150. McCants was worth taking a shot on. Brown on the other hand...

[Markeymark]

Brown was probably near the bottom of the top 150. McCants was worth taking a shot on. Brown on the other hand...

Kelvin Brown? He was a top-30 type recruit. He was oozing talent, you could see he had the potential to be something special at the college level. Too bad he was  a head case. There are some kids it's just smarter to take a pass on, for the good of the team. But I understand where SG would be willing to take a chance on the kid, because the opportunities to get someone that skilled to come to USF are few and far between.

[Brad]

Regarding the debate on Top 100/150 recruits coming to South Florida...

I know we aren't looking for just  "memories or recollections", but as I recall, in the Greenberg era we had the following:

BB Waldon - Top 100 recruit - head case and more

Kelvin Brown - Top 100 recuit - head case squared

Yusuf Baker - Top 100 recruit - Knee problem and more

Jimmy Baxter - athlete  I remember seeing Jimmy on some Top 150-200 lists, but he was an early committ and therefore, not many other schools had any remaining interest.

Altron Jackson was not a Top 150 recruit - from Sarasota, he was truly one of Seth's better finds (despite his selfishness and terrible attitude), he put up points.

Seth actually had a recruiting class that was Top 40...it was the class with Haven Jackson (left program), Raheim Brown (left program), Cedric Smith, Artha Reeves and Chonsey Asbury (in 97 or so).

It was their senior year that we had BB and Tron as juniors and SHOULD HAVE achieved something.    That was the most disappointing season I have experienced in 25 years.  The 00-01 season I beleive when we ended up about even in C-USA with no posteseason.  That was Seth's fifth year - the year I really had expectations - that we failed to win two games in the C-USA Tournament and had no postseason.  A Top 40 class as seniors, BB and Tron as juniors...Talent rich (by definitions I am reading on this board) and nothing.

[Bull94]

Bulliever,

Thanks for the info. I just want people to realize the ranking of the recruit isn't always as important as the character of the recruit.

Personally, I thought BB underachieved.

Kelvin barely remained academically eligible for a semester. Although it probably didn't hurt to take a flier on him, I think Seth would even admit he was a longshot. Probably why most schools pass on this type of kid.

Some of these kids are not cut out for college. No matter how high a ranking they receive.

Baker hurts a little. He had tons of upside. I'll trust CRM on that one.

Who do you think had a better ranking coming out of high school: Chris Rix or MB? Alot of this ranking stuff is subjective. It's what you do with your potential talent that matters.

[RagingBull]

Brad,

I believe ESPN had Altron in the 90-100 range when BB was somewhere around 28-35.

Seth did less with more.

[Brad]

Brad,

I believe ESPN had Altron in the 90-100 range when BB was somewhere around 28-35.

Seth did less with more.

You are right on all counts...

Altron was #99 on ESPN's list..I stand corrected.  

ESPN had BB at #29, other lists had him in same range..

Seth did less with more...  

[CyberBull]

Just b/c SEth did less with more doesn't mean we don't a coach who can it done.We should expect way more than we got with Seth and much, much more than what are getting from CRM. I don't have any faith that we will escape the cellar ofthe BE in the next 5 years. IMO, it's crazy to let this experiment go on for more than one more year if we don't see any real improvement.

Miami had a similar greeting into the Big East when they joined, but at least they improved every year in recruiting until it finaly came together. CRM is signing his third class this year and he has yet to sign an impact player.

We can't win without players....it's just that simple. You can't win with mediocre coaching (see seth while at USF) but you are guaranteed to lose if you can't compete talent wise.