Q&A with South Florida's Skip Holtz, Part I

[GaUSFBull]

So, it's a little disingenuous for Holtz to say that he doesn't look at stars, because overall those players who passed on USF were more highly rated than the ones we signed.

I'd be surprised if Skip, or most any coach, looks at stars during the process .... and by stars, I mean what other people are rating the players at.

Agreed ... seems the ones that place the stars on recruits, the recruiting sites, are for us the fans, and are not used often by coaches.  I would be inclined to believe that coaches use their own talent evaluation methods rather than Rivals or Scout's. 

[Mama_Bull]

So, it's a little disingenuous for Holtz to say that he doesn't look at stars, because overall those players who passed on USF were more highly rated than the ones we signed.

I'd be surprised if Skip, or most any coach, looks at stars during the process .... and by stars, I mean what other people are rating the players at.

Agreed ... seems the ones that place the stars on recruits, the recruiting sites, are for us the fans, and are not used often by coaches.  I would be inclined to believe that coaches use their own talent evaluation methods rather than Rivals or Scout's. 

I'm not going to defend the star system, but it would be pretty hard to argue against the proposition that the most highly rated players are being offered by more of the elite football programs around the nation. I'm sure there are exceptions to that for one reason or another, but it's no coincidence that in general the players we most wanted and didn't get had more stars.

[Greg Auman]

It's not that they ignore the star system completely. They just do their own evaluations -- they already have more than 400 kids on their board for 2012, and they've prioritized within that group enough to extend verbal scholarship offers to about 55 of them. I'm sure they're aware of outside evaluations -- recruiting sites, what other schools have offered, etc. -- but I imagine there's a fair amount of difference between any individual school's rankings and the national ones. No different from the NFL draft, where there's the national consensus of where players should go, then the personal opinions that lead to draft selections much higher or lower than "expected."

[Mama_Bull]

Thanks Greg for your input.

Some elite football programs, such as Miami, have found themselves in trouble by relying too heavily on recruiting sites and not enough on their own personal evaluations.

With so many players giving early verbals, I wonder whether USF will adjust its recruiting philosophy with respect to  scheduling official visits. It seems to me that we rely too much on having most players visit in January during the year end banquet and awards ceremony. By that time, many of the players who we most wanted had already taken official visits elsewhere and had committed to other schools.

[TallyBull]

But how is USF able to meaningfully evaluate all of these kids?  And how do they develop their list of 400 to begin with?  I suppose they have a system in place to do this but it seems a bit overwhelming to me.

[Ruger7mmmag]

Mama, some folks hate to admit that we lose alot more than we win on the recruiting front and it's alot easier to believe the star system sucks than to accept where we are in the pecking order of these top talents.  Odds are if the kid has 4 or 5 stars, he's already been recognized by coaches in his area for ALL state, all district, all whatever by people who objectively can compare them to all others in their area.  I doubt you'll see a kid get a 4 or 5 star ranking while sitting the bench on his local hs team.

If you've ever played sports at a high level where you were on these all district/all state teams, you'd agree with me in saying that they don't put scrubs on those 1st team selections.  I remember when looking at the pics next to mine thinking, ****, if we were all on the same team we'd be unstoppable.  Not, "geez, half these players suck.  Who the hell picks these guys?"  They all had the stats, measurables etc.

It's easy to say you don't recruit stars when you aren't getting them.  If we don't offer a 4 or 5 star kid for one reason or another, then I'll buy it.  But when we throw an offer at the SAME 4 or 5 star kids that elect to go elsewhere, that's more indicative of our job to sell a story more than the evaluation on that kid.  How the kid ends up before he graduates is up to more factors than anyone can say.  I'm more a believer that it's not the evaluations that are so off base, but whether the environment they go to is the best fit for their personality, work ethic, coaching etc.

One only has to look at Alabama to see where ratings systems meet good coaching.  Look at the kids Alabama has put in the NFL and what they were rated coming out of hs and this is only going back to 2005 I think.  I only looked up the guys I could think of in the NFL from bama, but chances are there are more I'm missing.

Rolando McClain-4 star

Andre Smith-5 star

Mark Ingram-4 star

Julio Jones-5 star

Trent Richardson-5 star (will be a top draft pick when he comes out)

This is not even counting all the 3 stars that staff has put in the NFL like Terrance Cody.

So if that kind of staff who has a pretty good eye for picking out NFL caliber talent at an above average rate is offering a kid, you better hope we're offering him!!!

Would anyone in their not mind not offer those guys above?  We offer just as many of these top guys as Bama, FSU, UF, Miami etc, but we don't win the battle to get them.  If a guy like Holtz can "coach up" guys who were more often than not lower on the boards of talent evaluators like Saban, can you imagine what he could do with getting his first choices?

Saying stars don't matter at all is no different than the moral victories UCF prides itself in...

Lucky for us, it's not all about stars, but the raw material of a 4-5 star recruit more often than not has a higher ceiling than a roster of 2-3 stars. 

[Ruger7mmmag]

But how is USF able to meaningfully evaluate all of these kids?  And how do they develop their list of 400 to begin with?  I suppose they have a system in place to do this but it seems a bit overwhelming to me.

These coaching staffs aren't all knowing geniuses.  They have to rely on two things to initially "pick up" on a kid which is exactly the same place the recruiting services start.  The "all state", "all district", "all regional" lists. 

The coaches know that these lists are often compiled by folks who REALLY KNOW the whole scene so they do a pretty good job of isolating the top "stars".  These lists alone for FL, GA and AL will give you a few hundred.  Then you rely on your relationships with the coaches at the highschools you know to not only give you a heads up on his players, but ones he knows in the area that may have been "snubbed" or just missed the list.

Trust me, if a kid couldn't get noticed to make HONORABLE MENTION in his county, odds are he's not D1 ready without some work.

I'm no expert on recruiting, but having been recruited for two sports, I got a little look into how it works...

[TallyBull]

Makes sense, thanks.  I guess these lists serve as early scouting reports.

[bulldozier1]

Thank goodness coaches are smart enough to do it's own evaluation. I would prefer coaches to run these ranking sites.

[slowdown]

But how is USF able to meaningfully evaluate all of these kids?  And how do they develop their list of 400 to begin with?  I suppose they have a system in place to do this but it seems a bit overwhelming to me.

relationships with high schools and high school coaches.  HS coaches will tell you about their players as well as some of the best they've gone up against.  probably talk to the local prep sports writers at the newspaper. we send out thousands of questionnaires to HS players as well.  camps, combines, and probably reading the high school sports sections on Saturday morning.  their are also other people ( for example that guy Derek at Sunshine Preps probably has a good idea of the best prospects ).  and yeah, they would be smart to talk to some of the people at recruiting services who are able to go to events and be in more contact with kids.  once you get that far you get some film on a kid and/or visit them in person ( spring evaluations are big ).  then you prioritize based on talent, need, academics, and character assessment.

at least 7 of our 10 coaches are out there at every opportunity visiting high schools.  on top of that Carl Franks and Rich Rachel are involved all the time.