Is the Pitt Game this weekend Sold Out?

[SANJAY]

Gene, I'll take you at your word that you were not flaming.  That is a rational explanation for how Pitt fans feel.  From our end, we think the 5 games we have played (we lead 3-2) show we are competitive and belong.  Don't forget 5 years for us is almost half our program's existence.  So you can understand, why for us, the Big East games are our traditional games. 

[Orlando Bull]

Thanks for the insight Pitt fan. I don't disagree with you, but we are what 3-2 against you guys? So, it's not like the game has always been a cake walk.

However, the point is clear, the Big East had a serious "region" problem. College football in Florida (other than Miami), is 100% king. UF, FSU, and to an extent USF and UCF fans are rabid about their programs. The Bucs/Jags are ho-hum, but the Dolphins have always been THE pro team of Florida (I am sure Bucs fans will disagree).

So, the issue is, other than Pitt and WVU, there aren't a lot of traditional fan bases in the "north". RU, Cincy, UConn, Cuse have bandwagon fans that would drop a college game for a chance to see the Steelers, Bengals, Giants/Jets any day of the week. Only the most rabid fins fan would forgo their college game to go to a Dolphins game. It's a regional difference.

Crap, I am going expansion...  For the BE to be successful, there needs to be a North and a South Division.

As of right now, you would have...

North

Pitt

UConn

Cuse

RU

South

USF

UL

WVU

Cincy could go either way. Now, you need to bring in 4 teams. I don't think there are 4 teams out there right now that we as Big East fans want in our conference. If we could "steal" a couple of current BCS teams (Penn St, ND, BC, VPI???), then you can sacrifice a couple of bad teams in there, but you can't bring in 4 bad teams just to make it happen. I do think the BE has some region issues, but I am not sure what the solution is.

Now, based on the Pitt fan basically calling us nobodies, kick some ass this weekend BULLS!

[SattyBull]

The Pitt faithfull will turn out in droves only if (a.) they are convinced that Pitt is very good; or (b.) Pitt is playing against an opponent that the populace respects/hates.  That's why you see big crowds for games against teams like Notre Dame, West Virginia, and even Navy (Penn State won't play us anymore) but much smaller crowds for games against teams like UConn, Rutgers, and South Florida.

     

I realize it's probably just poor word choice, but if the above is truly the case, then they're far from deserving the title of Pitt "faithful".

[Mission9]

Guys, we have split 6 games.  Two non-conference and four conference (I understand I have tried to forget the 2004 game).

[Who'sYourData?]

lol they couldn't sell out if you gave free tickets to men and released a female prison inside.

Yuck.  I've seen the inside of a female prison.  The women ain't nothin' like in the movies. 

[Mission9]

I'm a Pitt fan and I'd be happy to answer this question and clear up some misconceptions.  Please note that I'm not flaming at all; nor am I speaking for myself in many of my observations but rather I'm trying to provide the general mindset of the average casual college football fan in Western Pennsylvania.

Pitt does struggle with attendance and there are just no two ways about it.  The local populace here just doesn't seem to care nearly as much about college football as they do pro football.  Hell, some might argue that Western Pennsylvanians favor high school football over college football though I'm inclined to disagree with that sentiment.

Compounding our issue is that most people in Western PA don't seem to identify with - or respect - most of the teams on Pitt's conference schedule.  They care about West Virginia and even Syracuse (when they're competitive) and as such those games are usually pretty well attended.  However they don't think of Rutgers as being a legitimate power (they were Temple-esque for DECADES and WAY worse than even Syracuse is now) and they see schools like Cincinnati, South Florida and Connecticut as newbies and complain that it feels cheesy playing against those schools.   

I'm trying to think of a comparable analogy to explain the mindset but I really can't do it.  Let me try this one.  Imagine that one day you go on-line and read that Pitt, Syracuse, and West Virginia have up and left the Big East out of the blue and those schools are being immediately replaced with Buffalo, Toledo, and UNC-Charlotte; three schools with which you have no history or tradition and absolutely zero connection geographically, culturally, or any other way you can imagine.  That's sort of what happened to Pitt not only with UC, USF, and UL but also with UConn who most people never really thought of in any capacity - and more than you think of say, Providence or Seton Hall - until one day we were playing against them.  It was a pretty weird deal and I do understand why it has been slow to capture people's imaginations.   

It's a big adjustment to be playing Boston College every single year for as long as you can remember and talking about what a pain in the arse Flutie was; or how unreal those Miami teams of the 80s were and what they did to Pitt back in 1987; or how Virginia Tech's atmosphere at home games was incredible; etc.  Then one day you wake up and you have a trio of new conference mates that featured two "basketball schools" in the Midwest with small stadiums and no history and some directional Florida school that we only ever heard of because they upset us one year in football. 

I'm sure you don't like hearing that but it is the truth and that will continue to be the case for the next several years until (a.) the conference disbands; (b.) Pitt leaves for another opportunity; or (c.) the Big East's teams build up their programs to the point where we are consistently playing each other later in the season with a lot at stake.  For my money, options A & B are real long shots so C must be the way to go.  However that takes a massive commitment on everyone part and it takes time to foster those rivalries and play those meaningful games against opponents that everyone knows and respects (and hopefully LOATHES).

The Pitt faithfull will turn out in droves only if (a.) they are convinced that Pitt is very good; or (b.) Pitt is playing against an opponent that the populace respects/hates.  That's why you see big crowds for games against teams like Notre Dame, West Virginia, and even Navy (Penn State won't play us anymore) but much smaller crowds for games against teams like UConn, Rutgers, and South Florida.

Presuming it stays dry, the weather won't be a factor at all  on Saturday as sunny and in the mid-50s is a pretty nice day for late October in Pittsburgh.  The problem is that most casual fans have no idea who USF is or where you are even located (I suspect most would guess Miami or Fort Lauderdale and some might even say Orlando, confusing you with UCF/Central Florida).  Also, I think most Pittsburghers remain a little skeptical that Pitt is for real (though I think we are).

It is the classic bandwagon mentality that is typical for college teams that play in pro cities including Boston College, Cincinnati, Minnesota, Miami and, I suspect, USF.

As for Saturday, presuming the rain holds off, I think you'll see an announced crowd of somewhere between 41-44K.  If it rains that mid-50s weather will feel much, much colder and I think you'll see a crowd in the mid-to-upper 30s.

     

You know Gene, you pretty much spelled out why I was more of a pro football fan than a college fan before USF started football.  College fans seem enamored more with the name on the jerseys and "trahdishun" (tradition) than how good the team actually is.  You can be sure that Steeler fans would be pumped for any 5 and 1 team  coming to town.  I also think that in the last couple of years USF would have fared well against Notre Dame.  USF has proven that they can hold their own against UWVa and the once proud program Syracuse.  Is USF a great program? No, but they came compete with teams like that and certainly can play with Pitt.

[SANJAY]

3-3 is right.  Completely blacked out 2004.  Other than the 3 blocked fg/xp what was there to remember?

[The Great 8]

I have family in the Pittsburgh area, I'd definitely surmise it's an issue of having the Steelers in the area as well as the Nittany Lions for college ball. For whatever reason there are a whole lot more WVU fans in the area than there are Pitt fans. It's kind of obnoxious really, it'd be like tons of UCF fans in Tampa.

[GeneParmesan]

I definitely wasn't flaming - I wouldn't just do that for no reason as it's chicken schitt - and I am well aware of the fact that we are 3-3 all-time.  Also, there is a cadre of Pitt fans who go to every game, go to bowl games, follow the team to road games, etc.  I am a part of that group and we're all well aware of USF's initial success and more importantly, your potential for greater success down the road.  

I follow your program very closely because I think in the long term Pitt and USF are the only two programs with the money and the local recruiting bases to be good on a year-in and year-out basis.  I think Rutgers could probably do that as well and I'm beginning to become convinced that as long as Kelly is at Cincinnati they are going to be a force with which to be reckoned.

I actually think all eight league programs have at least some reason to be optimistic about their program's chances of one day ruling the league and that is more than I can say about any other BCS league.  For example, no matter what happens Mississippi State and Vanderbilt are NEVER going to rule the SEC, Baylor is NEVER going to rule the Big XII, Duke will NEVER run the ACC, and Indiana is NEVER going to rule the Big Ten.  However you can't really say that about any member of the Big East and personally, I find that interesting and exciting.

As for the our record against each other, again, I'm well aware of it so you are preaching to the choir to some extent.  Unfortunately, when people don't respect the rest of the league's teams, they look at that 3-3 record and see it as "proof" of Pitt's decline, not of USF's ascention.  It's just that when we traded Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College and even Temple for South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn that is a ridiculous amount of upheaval and it is going to take time for the casual fan - not only in PGH but nationally as well - to accept that change and to get into some of the new rivalries.  

As I said in my original post we need to play more games against each other with a lot on the line - and hopefully later in the season - several times before people start believing in the league as a whole.  Also, we all need to win our OOC games and especially our bowl games.  If we can consistently do that I firmly believe that in time our games against each other will be seen in the same light as our games vs. your predecessors were seen.  Until that happens though I suspect that you will continue to see relatively sparsely attended Pitt home games when we play against most of our conference opponents.

[Cow Pie]

Crap, I am going expansion...  For the BE to be successful, there needs to be a North and a South Division.

As of right now, you would have...

North

Pitt

UConn

Cuse

RU

South

USF

UL

WVU

Cincy could go either way. Now, you need to bring in 4 teams. I don't think there are 4 teams out there right now that we as Big East fans want in our conference. If we could "steal" a couple of current BCS teams (Penn St, ND, BC, VPI???), then you can sacrifice a couple of bad teams in there, but you can't bring in 4 bad teams just to make it happen. I do think the BE has some region issues, but I am not sure what the solution is.

Now, based on the Pitt fan basically calling us nobodies, kick some ass this weekend BULLS!

I agree and have been beating this dead horse for some time... the BEast needs to expand to at least 10 teams (North and South Divisions) to fix the annual scheduling fiasco, the regional attendance issues, and the money problems over all. Also the Big East needs to end the Football vs. Basketball feud and kick some dead weight to the curb to get the expansion train moving (i.e. Marquette, Notre Dame, and DePaul).

Also Cincy can not go either way they are a Yankee school... thus we already have a Northern Division and just need Southern Schools... the real question is who to add??  ???

North Division

Cincinnati Bearcats

Connecticut Huskies

Pittsburgh Panthers

Syracuse Orangemen

Butgers Knights

South Division

Louisville Cardinals

South Florida Bulls

West Virginia Mountainqueers

I say we add Memphis and Navy (which is in Maryland) and be done with it.

We also need some trophy games... the Big East is the only BCS Conference where none of its members compete for a rivalry trophy of some kind. Doing this will boost interest in our conference games and will give us a product to market to the likes of ESPN to generate tv revenue.