Gerard Atkins didn't make it in

[USF_Grouper]

..the point is Joyer's GPA was MORE THAN ENOUGH at 2.59, and even a slight drop still allowed him to meet the NCAA min. 

Who cares if his GPA was good enough to meet NCAA minimums or not.  Most schools, including USF, set their own, more stringent standards.  These aren't standards that USF selects to be jerks or to take opportunities away.  They are standards that, based on historical data and analysis, have shown predict a students ability to succeed at USF.  If students don't meet those standards it is better, for them, to attend a different University or junior college and gain the skills necessary to succeed at USF.

If UL or any other school feels he is a good fit for their campus, then I wish him the best success.  He wasn't a good fit for USF, at this point in his academic development.

[Matt]

considering how many "weight lifting" classes high school football players take i really dont put much faith in GPAs on paper.

id be more interested in the GPA in the actual CORE classes, math science, english

[USF_Grouper]

who makes up this committee and why is this happening now?

Good question - I think it is the same admissions department that has always cleared student athletes.  In years past (maybe 3 or 4 years ago) most students who got passed NCAA were accepted.  We have learned that many of these marginal students do not do well at USF, so the standards have been increased.  Accepting marginal student athletes that you are know are not academically prepared is no better than the predatory lending practices of many financial institutions.  Some schools do it - I, for one, am glad USF doesn't!  

[Bullpride08]

who makes up this committee and why is this happening now?

Good question - I think it is the same admissions department that has always cleared student athletes.  In years past (maybe 3 or 4 years ago) most students who got passed NCAA were accepted.  We have learned that many of these marginal students do not do well at USF, so the standards have been increased.  Accepting marginal student athletes that you are know are not academically prepared is no better than the predatory lending practices of many financial institutions.  Some schools do it - I, for one, am glad USF doesn't!  

Those marginal kids like Jarriette Buie, Marquell Blackwell, Andre Hall, and DeAndrew Rubin?

The fact is if a player wants to graduate as a football player he can.  even if he's only the NCAA minimum...hell the aforementioned gentlemen have proven even if you're BELOW the NCAA minimum you can graduate from USF. 

The APR issue had all to do with character and little to do with grades.  Guys like Josh Julmiste, Ponton, Randy Jackson, Andre Copeland, CJ Hunnicutt, Chambers and Johnny Peyton all left under suspicious issues.  All enrolled, all did not leave because of academics.  One is in maximum security prison right now.  That type of behavior can not be detected from a GPA, or test score.  And schools heighten their admission for STUDENTS, but for great athletes they make countless exceptions.  Every school in the nation does it.  Michigan got Martavious Odom into school when we said we couldn't....USF doesn't hold a candle academically to UM...but it certaintly didn't bother them to make an exception for Odom.

[Apis Bull]

There's no sense in arguing this anymore.  There are obviously two camps on this; one that thinks it's okay for USF to have it's own standards, and one that thinks if an athlete is cleared by the NCAA, he should be accepted to the school.

Nothing posted here is going to change either group's mind, so we need to let it go.

[bullcocky101]

Atkins had a 2.5...you don´t get into any respectable college with a 2.5 high school gpa, especially when it is inflated by ******** classes many football players take. Good call committee.

[dausfbulls11]

There's no sense in arguing this anymore.  There are obviously two camps on this; one that thinks it's okay for USF to have it's own standards, and one that thinks if an athlete is cleared by the NCAA, he should be accepted to the school.

Nothing posted here is going to change either group's mind, so we need to let it go.

    it matters to future recruits and their families, it matters to CJL.......how long before he gets fed up and goes somewhere more committed to winning

[bulls96go]

..the point is Joyer's GPA was MORE THAN ENOUGH at 2.59, and even a slight drop still allowed him to meet the NCAA min. 

Who cares if his GPA was good enough to meet NCAA minimums or not.  Most schools, including USF, set their own, more stringent standards.  These aren't standards that USF selects to be jerks or to take opportunities away.  They are standards that, based on historical data and analysis, have shown predict a students ability to succeed at USF.  If students don't meet those standards it is better, for them, to attend a different University or junior college and gain the skills necessary to succeed at USF.

If UL or any other school feels he is a good fit for their campus, then I wish him the best success.  He wasn't a good fit for USF, at this point in his academic development.

True ...but many questionable kids have come in and graduated. IF the 'academics" had nixed this in Dec so our coaches could look elsewhere and the kids were not jammed up this would be a none issue. Few have a problem with "what" occured it is the "manner" and the "timing" that has been the problem. The preception will hurt us in the short  term, but more of this next year or our coaches lowering the talent level of recuits could hurt the program long term

[BleacherBull]

I have no problem with higher academic standards, but these standards shouldn't be on some capricious sliding scale that is a mystery to all concerned.  Write them down on paper, hopefully with a minimum of footnotes and narrow exceptions to policy, so that everyone can understand and act on them.  I trust within a year or two these "surprises" will become much rarer.  If not, we should all complain at the next town hall meeting.

[USF_Grouper]

I have no problem with higher academic standards, but these standards shouldn't be on some capricious sliding scale that is a mystery to all concerned.  Write them down on paper, hopefully with a minimum of footnotes and narrow exceptions to policy, so that everyone can understand and act on them.  I trust within a year or two these "surprises" will become much rarer.  If not, we should all complain at the next town hall meeting.

I am reasonably confident that Leavitt and his staff have a good understanding what the general guidelines are.  Now getting down into the borderline cases probably requires considerable qualititative analysis which cannot be easily described in a 1-page memo to the coaching staff. They look at things like trending (are they doing better recently), strength of academic program, and other factors.

Some have commented that you can't predict collegiate success from at test and GPA.  There is no doubt that you can - mathematically these test scores and high school performance measures prove to be predictive in countless studies. Now of course that doesn't mean that it is fully deterministic.  There are certainly students who get in the right frame of mind, get the right help, or make other dramatic changes and succeed at college despite predictive high school performance that would suggest otherwise.  These are the exceptions not the rules.

For those of you so angered by this policy you should ask yourself what you think USF's end game is.  Do you think we are trying to bring fame to our rigorous academic standards by denying student athletes?  That is just silly, the student athletes we do accept wouldn't qualify for standard admission to USF.  The academic committee's primary focus is on what is in the best interest of the student athlete and the student body.  Placing a student in an environment he is not prepared to succeed is unfair - nor is it fair to the other students.

For those who feel the policy needs to be more formal and understood, I am not sure we have enough information.  CJL was in the practice of accepting students who he believed had a low probability of clearing NCAA.  It was a good way to form a bond with the student and hopefully get him out of JUCO.  I haven't heard CJL screaming and yelling about the academic committee - what's to say he isn't very well aware of the likelyhood these students will be rejected?  What is to say that he doesn't decide to extend the offer, explain to them they likely be rejected admission, and hope he can either get them in or get them to go to a prep school/JUCO?  Not saying that is what is going on, just saying it doesn't seem like anyone outside of USF really knows.