Rays' Proposed Stadium Unveiled!

[Joe]

Trip,

The Hit Show was 5-6 over the hill players along with STUPID conracts for Wilson Alvarez and Juan Guzman. Neither pitcher was even near good yet got Good starter type money.

There is spending dumb (Canseco, Vaughn, mcGriff, and spending smart.

Lets not let a stupid popularity move like the Hit Show reflect why this team shouldn't spend.

[Matt]

matt garza is a helluva player.  im glad the Rays got him.

everything starts with Pitching.  the rays had an overload of Outfielders and Delmon was the easiest and wisest one to move.

[Triple B]

Trip,

The Hit Show was 5-6 over the hill players along with STUPID conracts for Wilson Alvarez and Juan Guzman. Neither pitcher was even near good yet got Good starter type money.

There is spending dumb (Canseco, Vaughn, mcGriff, and spending smart.

Lets not let a stupid popularity move like the Hit Show reflect why this team shouldn't spend.

It was just an example that spending doesn't alwayes equate to winning .... also, see Orioles, Baltimore. I'm assuming they have a plan to get the team competitive and KEEP it competitive for as long as possible. That plan obviously didn't include coming in and blowing money on free agents that may or may not be here when the team gets there. The moves this last week show me that they're not just sitting around with their thimbs up their ass and are actively working to get this franchise up to respectibility.... Like I said, if two years from now they're still around $30 million and losing 100 games, blast away ...

[Velcro]

Spending does equal winning if you are smart about it.  If it didn't matter, then why is it Yanks/Sox all the time?

They have money and they use it wisely.  They do screw up from time to time on big contracts, but they have the fan base to absorb those losses and still stay profitable.

Miguel Tejada was recently a FA.  Vlad Guerrero.  El Caballo.  They were out there.  When Tejada was available, he was young and healthy.  Now he belongs at 3rd base, so I can see where you could argue against that.  There were pitchers available, but free agents generally don't even consider Tampa bay unless they are already in past their twilight (as Joe mentioned with the old hit show).

I'm too lazy to list all the free agent signings from recent years... but the only reason the rays couldn't get them is because they wouldn't be willing to pay them as much as the big budget teams would. 

I still stick to my point that a stadium isn't going to fix anything at all unless that stadium is more centrally located, and even that will have minimal effect. 

Gotta win to bring the crowds in a bandwagon city... that is the doom of the rays.

If you had a huge fan base that supports even when they are down, maybe there would be money to go out and make a splash like Baltimore and Toronto keep doing year after year.

Eventually the Rays will leave town if they can't figure a way to get that new building even half full consistently and that will be sad.

[macphisto]

Spending does equal winning if you are smart about it.  If it didn't matter, then why is it Yanks/Sox all the time?

They have money and they use it wisely.  They do screw up from time to time on big contracts, but they have the fan base to absorb those losses and still stay profitable.

Miguel Tejada was recently a FA.  Vlad Guerrero.  El Caballo.  They were out there.  When Tejada was available, he was young and healthy.  Now he belongs at 3rd base, so I can see where you could argue against that.  There were pitchers available, but free agents generally don't even consider Tampa bay unless they are already in past their twilight (as Joe mentioned with the old hit show).

I'm too lazy to list all the free agent signings from recent years... but the only reason the rays couldn't get them is because they wouldn't be willing to pay them as much as the big budget teams would. 

I still stick to my point that a stadium isn't going to fix anything at all unless that stadium is more centrally located, and even that will have minimal effect. 

Gotta win to bring the crowds in a bandwagon city... that is the doom of the rays.

If you had a huge fan base that supports even when they are down, maybe there would be money to go out and make a splash like Baltimore and Toronto keep doing year after year.

Eventually the Rays will leave town if they can't figure a way to get that new building even half full consistently and that will be sad.

Tejada is making $12M a year at this point and he required a six year commitment.  Guerrero is now at $14.5M and required five years with a sixth year option.

Teams like the Rays aren't necessarily afraid of spending big bucks.  They're afraid of committing money long term.  Look at what happened with Alvarez and the other guys.  They lost all their payroll flexibility.

I'm not a Rays fan.  I like them, but I'm a Cleveland Indians fan, having moved from that area.  Fans up in C-Town and all over griped for years about payroll.  Fact is that the owner, Larry Dolan, tried going with the huge payroll (it was at $90 million in 2001) and realized it was a dead end.  It will only continue to escalate.  The Indians instead dumped money into the farm system and looked to make smart trades.  They also traded some of their popular, developed talent.  Bartolo Colon was traded for a guy named Grady Sizemore and a starting pitcher named Cliff Lee.  The Indians traded a spare pitcher for Travis Hafner because they realized that Texas had no place to put him.  They also recognized that pitching is the hardest thing to trade for - you have to develop it on your own most of the time.  Sabathia and Carmona were either drafted or originally signed by the Indians.

But this comes at a price.  The Indians spend well over $20 million a year on their farm system between signing bonuses, scouting, training, etc.  From what I understand, the Rays have also been putting quite a bit of money into their farm, but that's something no one ever really sees on a financial ledger. 

The Rays are taking the Indians approach.  They've set it up so they have a very nice looking 1-2-3 setup in the rotation.  They picked up a bullpen prospect and are looking to add another vet who may be able to help mentor the younger guys.  They may also sign some other guys.  They got a really good defensive SS who should make the pitchers' jobs easier.  They have a guy in Longoria who could make a HUGE difference in the lineup. 

Here's the idea.  You grow the talent, fill gaps with free agents, though you never break the bank on free agents.  You have a low payroll for years and PAY your own guys when the time is right.  The Indians gave big money to Hafner on a long term extension.  They are reportedly going to offer Sabathia $20M a year, but these are their guys and the team is already winning.  This puts a focus on youth and team chemistry.  You identify who you want to keep long term, sign them, and then trade the extras when they get near free agency, restocking your farm in the process.  You keep the farm stocked so you can replace the 1B who is going to want too much money because you decided to pay your #1 pitcher and your LFer.

That's what the Rays are aiming for.  Rays fans are complaining just like so many Tribe fans did no matter how much I told them payroll was irrelevant at this time.  Spending doesn't mean you're really pursuing winning.  I think the Rays are clearly on the right path and could be much, much better this upcoming season.  If they do manage to finish around .500 then I'd guess the referendum on the new stadium will pass without much opposition.

[Joe]

The difference? The Indians spent almost 4 times what the Rays did this year...

[Joe]

Excuse me 3 times.

[Velcro]

Comparing apples and oranges macphisto...

committing money long term is ok if it is a worthy player.

I'd get guerrero at 14.5 MM in a heartbeat for 6 years... no doubt.

Alvarez?  i wouldnt' touch him even short term at high cost.

Rays have spent money occasionally, but it is always on bad contracts (except Crawford, i praise you guys for keeping him... he is highly coveted... if you guys let him get away... might as well put the nail in the coffin).

[Triple B]

The difference? The Indians spent almost 3 times what the Rays did this year...

That's because they are different points in the development of their team .... Did you even read macphisto's whole post??

[Triple B]

Rays have spent money occasionally, but it is always on bad contracts

Name a bad contract the current regime has signed?