Pictures of the brutality....

[Apis Bull]

well it isn't really fair that security has to pick and choose which violators should be arrested when the entire field is obviously filled with criminals. The best solution to this is to be fair and not risk any security official's lives. Just let all the students enter the field unhindered and shut all the access out of the field...then from the stands just start taking pot shots until all the criminals are "taken care of" It's as easy as that, the tresspassers are erraticated and no one has to fear for their safety from dangerous students  :

You really weaken your arguement with statements like that.

The bottom line is, that everyone there knew they were not supposed to be on the field.  There's really no other argument.  These, "kids", willfully violated the law.

[Apis Bull]

What kind of daring escape was going to take place in a fish bowl filled with officers, security, media and cameras? Were the fans going to fashion homemade weapons in order to combat the well armed officers in order to put their lives in danger? What kind of logic would afford someone to take this great of risk for so little reward? At most people were facing fines or community service , not quite worth attacking an officer over.

You can't apply logic to someone that may be drunk, adrenaline running high, that has already broken the law right in front of you eyes.

[BULLheaded]

Yes there was.  STAY OFF THE FIELD!

Yes, that is another option....not realistic but theoretically an option.

[Zonald]

Zonald,

Do you think if someone is out there running on the field that if an oficer tells them to stop and they are under arrest that they will just stop?

When the police let up they risk their own lives.  Believe it or not, there are people that will do just about anything not to get arrested.

Of course not, but some would I'm sure.  Then the police could tell them to get off the field.  If they didn't use whatever is necessary to arrest them at that point.  Force is fine when met with RESISTANCE.  That was not the case Saturday night.  If the cops went on the filed and started arresting people with no violence (after the rush), the students would have RAN off the field.  Problem solved.  Student penalized, nobody hurt.  

I find it hard to believe that any police officer felt for their life Saturday night.  Question, were you there?  If so, based on what you saw, did you think it was the ONLY and BEST way to stop the fans from celebrating on the field?  Would you feel the same way if that was your son or daughter that got their ass kicked and choked?  I witness some excessive use of force with no resistance.  That guy that got choked right in front of me was pretty uncalled for.  

If I had a family member that was a law enforcement office that night, I would not feel any different about the situation.  The students were not putting anyone (cops, players, media) in any imminent danger.  I sound like a broken record.  

Was it the end of the world the last time we ran onto the filed?  I was on the field and cops asked me to leave, which I did.  Do you think the cops were in fear for their safety then?  

[Apis Bull]

I'll admit I was not there.  I'm going off what youguys have said and the photos I've seen.

That doesn't change the fact that you not supposed to be on the field.  I would hope that my son would be smart enough not to do it.  Especially, after seeing allt he police and security people there.

Nine times out of ten, there may be no harm that occurs from running out onto the field.  But if on that tenth time, it does get out of hand, then people will be suing TSA, USF, and the police for not doing something about it.

Evidently, I am in the minority, I've never felt the need to trespass or vandalize to enhance my enjoyment of a victory.

[Apis Bull]

Yes, that is another option....not realistic but theoretically an option.

Why isn't it realistic?

[Zonald]

You really weaken your arguement with statements like that.

The bottom line is, that everyone there knew they were not supposed to be on the field.  There's really no other argument.  These, "kids", willfully violated the law.

Once again, I agree.  

However,

Force > Harm

therein is my problem.  The court system constantly uses a balancing test to determine the right of the parties involved in litigation.  

Going on the filed is against the law, but using this analysis, what harm is it really causing?  Stay with me.  I'm talking in a legal sense.  Not civil liability.  The legislature passed this law for a reason.  Using this legislative intent, do you think they pondered students rushing the field to celebrate their teams greatest victory?  No, of course not.  Therefore, look at the harm caused to society from this particular violation.  I would feel it would be nominal at best and there is still civil liability for the owners of Ray Jay for any damages caused by individuals.  

Therefore, when the harm to society is minimal, is there a right to use force to prevent this nominal harm?  

You are saying yes, I say no.  I guess we are both entitled to our opinions.  While I feel those in violation of the law should be penalized, the penalty should be equal to the harm.  Prosecutors use broad discretion, for good reason, when charging individuals with crimes.  I know many, and I think they would be surprised at the actions of the police that night as well.  I would be very surprised if any of these people are ACTUALLY tried for any of these trespassing crimes.  I’m rambling….I could go on forever….I need to get something done today….

[BULLheaded]

You really weaken your arguement with statements like that.

The bottom line is, that everyone there knew they were not supposed to be on the field.  There's really no other argument.  These, "kids", willfully violated the law.

It was intended to be absurd.  :

And how many times do people do things they know they aren't "supposed" to do. I highly doubt most were thinking of it as anything more serious then breaking a rule. It's just so rediculous, you talk like the kids were rioting, geesh they ran on a football field...big frickin deal. Now if they were tearing down the goalposts then I would agree with you but for just entering the field? C'mon, name me a school around the country where this doesn't or hasn't happened.

[Apis Bull]

Again, since I wasn't there, I can't say if the trespassers resisted arrest (running away from the police is resisting arrest) or not.

BTW, excessive force may have been used, I don't know.  However, my whole point is...well you know it by now.  

[Apis Bull]

It was intended to be absurd.  :

And how many times do people do things they know they aren't "supposed" to do. I highly doubt most were thinking of it as anything more serious then breaking a rule. It's just so rediculous, you talk like the kids were rioting, geesh they ran on a football field...big frickin deal. Now if they were tearing down the goalposts then I would agree with you but for just entering the field? C'mon, name me a school around the country where this doesn't or hasn't happened.

How do you know that if allowed, they wouldn't have torn down the goal posts?  How do you know that if 20,000 people are allowed on the field it won't turn into a riot.

We have seen many times, that large gtherings of emotional people can turn into a riot.

Do I think that was going to happen here?  Probably not.  But that's not the point.