Mutiny?

[Bull-by-Marriage]

You guys just don't like to admit that we are No where near as talented as you think we are. Skip sucks, but so do some of the players. Those of you that are hanging on to the notion that we are as talented as you think we are, always go back to the "well we're in the big east.....". Yes. we have enough talent to win 5 or 6 games, but that isn't acceptable.

Sanjay, how do you know that the team is going to become less talented? You haven't seen the rest of our roster get extensive playing time, you haven't seen the rest of our roster under a different stystem. Can you see into the future? If so, tell me the power ball numbers. Yes I'm saying that our talent could not beat Temple and Ball State. Did we? NO. Yes it has to do with coaching. However, no matter what scheme you are running for your D- line, if they are talented enough they should be able to get to the QB more often. No matter what scheme you are running for your LB's and DB's they should be able to intercept passes and cover people better. Ther are teams all over the country that run zone schemes and get INT's and sacks.

Bull94, what does tenure have to do with it?

Neither of you can say anything in my original post is wrong. You both just try to change the issue. All I'm saying is that it's not ALL on the coaching staff. Why can't either of you admit that?

[Bull94]

You guys just don't like to admit that we are No where near as talented as you think we are. Skip sucks, but so do some of the players. Those of you that are hanging on to the notion that we are as talented as you think we are, always go back to the "well we're in the big east.....". Yes. we have enough talent to win 5 or 6 games, but that isn't acceptable.

Sanjay, how do you know that the team is going to become less talented? You haven't seen the rest of our roster get extensive playing time, you haven't seen the rest of our roster under a different stystem. Can you see into the future? If so, tell me the power ball numbers. Yes I'm saying that our talent could not beat Temple and Ball State. Did we? NO. Yes it has to do with coaching. However, no matter what scheme you are running for your D- line, if they are talented enough they should be able to get to the QB more often. No matter what scheme you are running for your LB's and DB's they should be able to intercept passes and cover people better. Ther are teams all over the country that run zone schemes and get INT's and sacks.

Bull94, what does tenure have to do with it?

Neither of you can say anything in my original post is wrong. You both just try to change the issue. All I'm saying is that it's not ALL on the coaching staff. Why can't either of you admit that?

tenure gives you the time to build your team with your players.

of course it's not all on the coaching staff but guess who is responsible for the quality of players we have on the roster. the buck stops at the top.

it's Holtz 3rd year. if it were him replacing substandard leavitt players with quality of his own then we would be getting better. not worse. 7-5 with none of his guys. 5-7 with some. 3-9 with even more. it's not all on scheme either although i think it's the most important element. it also goes to how well they're taught as well.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Bull94

[Bull-by-Marriage]

You guys just don't like to admit that we are No where near as talented as you think we are. Skip sucks, but so do some of the players. Those of you that are hanging on to the notion that we are as talented as you think we are, always go back to the "well we're in the big east.....". Yes. we have enough talent to win 5 or 6 games, but that isn't acceptable.

Sanjay, how do you know that the team is going to become less talented? You haven't seen the rest of our roster get extensive playing time, you haven't seen the rest of our roster under a different stystem. Can you see into the future? If so, tell me the power ball numbers. Yes I'm saying that our talent could not beat Temple and Ball State. Did we? NO. Yes it has to do with coaching. However, no matter what scheme you are running for your D- line, if they are talented enough they should be able to get to the QB more often. No matter what scheme you are running for your LB's and DB's they should be able to intercept passes and cover people better. Ther are teams all over the country that run zone schemes and get INT's and sacks.

Bull94, what does tenure have to do with it?

Neither of you can say anything in my original post is wrong. You both just try to change the issue. All I'm saying is that it's not ALL on the coaching staff. Why can't either of you admit that?

tenure gives you the time to build your team with your players.

of course it's not all on the coaching staff but guess who is responsible for the quality of players we have on the roster. the buck stops at the top.

it's Holtz 3rd year. if it were him replacing substandard leavitt players with quality of his own then we would be getting better. not worse. 7-5 with none of his guys. 5-7 with some. 3-9 with even more. it's not all on scheme either although i think it's the most important element. it also goes to how well they're taught as well.

I agree with everything you said.

[SANJAY]

You guys just don't like to admit that we are No where near as talented as you think we are. Skip sucks, but so do some of the players. Those of you that are hanging on to the notion that we are as talented as you think we are, always go back to the "well we're in the big east.....". Yes. we have enough talent to win 5 or 6 games, but that isn't acceptable.

Sanjay, how do you know that the team is going to become less talented? You haven't seen the rest of our roster get extensive playing time, you haven't seen the rest of our roster under a different stystem. Can you see into the future? If so, tell me the power ball numbers. Yes I'm saying that our talent could not beat Temple and Ball State. Did we? NO. Yes it has to do with coaching. However, no matter what scheme you are running for your D- line, if they are talented enough they should be able to get to the QB more often. No matter what scheme you are running for your LB's and DB's they should be able to intercept passes and cover people better. Ther are teams all over the country that run zone schemes and get INT's and sacks.

Bull94, what does tenure have to do with it?

Neither of you can say anything in my original post is wrong. You both just try to change the issue. All I'm saying is that it's not ALL on the coaching staff. Why can't either of you admit that?

Not sure where I have refused to admit that. Our players do lots of dumb things. Personal fouls, bad tackling angles, dropped passes, poor tackling form, dropped puntinappropriate decision making on KR returns, etc. I have said this often enough on here but maybe I should regurgitate that in each of my criticisms of Holtz. However, good coaches can either fix it by correcting the behavior or benching the culprits. We do neither apparently. It took a half season and a Popek injury for them to finally bench a couple very poor performing linemen.

Watch this team. Forget talent. Does the team look well coached? Coaching does not only involve the Gameday play calls but also the stuff that goes on during the week where the kids learn technique and position assignments, etc. the defense looks like they have no clue and the offense has no consistency. Coaching also involves establishing the depth chart and rewarding good performance and punishing poor performance, and they have not done that consistently.

As for the recruiting, I follow recruiting pretty closeley, I don't pretend to be an expert on it but I am no stargazer either fousing on shiny 4 and 5 stars. The staff has recruited a number of kids because they were low hanging fruit rather than fight for better talent. They have taken at least 2 kids on this roster without ever seeing them play live which is surprising to me as tape is good live scouting is better.

[Bull-by-Marriage]

You guys just don't like to admit that we are No where near as talented as you think we are. Skip sucks, but so do some of the players. Those of you that are hanging on to the notion that we are as talented as you think we are, always go back to the "well we're in the big east.....". Yes. we have enough talent to win 5 or 6 games, but that isn't acceptable.

Sanjay, how do you know that the team is going to become less talented? You haven't seen the rest of our roster get extensive playing time, you haven't seen the rest of our roster under a different stystem. Can you see into the future? If so, tell me the power ball numbers. Yes I'm saying that our talent could not beat Temple and Ball State. Did we? NO. Yes it has to do with coaching. However, no matter what scheme you are running for your D- line, if they are talented enough they should be able to get to the QB more often. No matter what scheme you are running for your LB's and DB's they should be able to intercept passes and cover people better. Ther are teams all over the country that run zone schemes and get INT's and sacks.

Bull94, what does tenure have to do with it?

Neither of you can say anything in my original post is wrong. You both just try to change the issue. All I'm saying is that it's not ALL on the coaching staff. Why can't either of you admit that?

Not sure where I have refused to admit that. Our players do lots of dumb things. Personal fouls, bad tackling angles, dropped passes, poor tackling form, dropped puntinappropriate decision making on KR returns, etc. I have said this often enough on here but maybe I should regurgitate that in each of my criticisms of Holtz. However, good coaches can either fix it by correcting the behavior or benching the culprits. We do neither apparently. It took a half season and a Popek injury for them to finally bench a couple very poor performing linemen.

Watch this team. Forget talent. Does the team look well coached? Coaching does not only involve the Gameday play calls but also the stuff that goes on during the week where the kids learn technique and position assignments, etc. the defense looks like they have no clue and the offense has no consistency. Coaching also involves establishing the depth chart and rewarding good performance and punishing poor performance, and they have not done that consistently.

As for the recruiting, I follow recruiting pretty closeley, I don't pretend to be an expert on it but I am no stargazer either fousing on shiny 4 and 5 stars. The staff has recruited a number of kids because they were low hanging fruit rather than fight for better talent. They have taken at least 2 kids on this roster without ever seeing them play live which is surprising to me as tape is good live scouting is better.

This is my last reply to you in this thread because of the bolded area. Many times in this thread alone I have said that the coaching has sucked. Yet, you tell me to watch this team to see how poor the coaching is.

Recruiting: You focus on the 2 kids they never saw play. I'll focus on Price and Bivins. Skip's done a pretty decent job recruiting.

[BullsOnThaRize8]

i understand we are not as good..but i watch other teams that just arent as talented either..and they are always coming in playing great games against us and dominating. I garuntee you..a coach with either a dominant offensive mind or the flip side very defensive oriented would have this team EXTREMELY TALENTED in one of the two. It happens everywhere but here. I promise you we are dealing with a coaching staff that fundamentally does not have a SYSTEM that is in place that is putting these kids in the best places to succeed. If we were seeing an offense run plays to beat the defenses we see and have seen for awhile then we would be satisfied. We can live with losing guys. I have no problem losing if we are losing because we got outplayed. None of these coaches when prompted or questioned give anywhere near the answers these talented coaches give. Im sure we do not match up with the best teams...I accept that but do not think that we are not an above 500 team or that we shouldnt be a consistant 7 win team because WE SURE AS HELL SHOULD.

[SattyBull]

TALENT is there. Application of that talent, and the determination and motivation of that talent is what is lacking.

This is the big east for crying out loud guys, we have the talent. I don't care if we are playing all freshman and sophomores, we have the talent on this roster to beat Ball St and Temple... If you truly believe those teams have more talent than us....welp.

I think skip has lost the team. I heard a few players talking on campus a few weeks ago about an argument that happened in the locker room one day after practice...this was a segmented team the last few weeks. It showed.

Edited November 27, 2012 by SattyBull

[USF_Grouper]

This is the big east for crying out loud guys, we have the talent. I don't care if we are playing all freshman and sophomores,

I suspect we'd have had a better season if we played on;y freshmen and sophmores

[Bullpride08]

Two recruits do not make a program....one is on his second ACL tear in a year. Skip's recruiting has been atrocious by most standards...ignoring regions, focusing only on what certain coordinators want to concentrate on and not what the program should be doing. What about Miami....I think our staff now believes that is a foreign country. Price was a nice snag...but there are to many circumstances where they went with size over substance.

We once recruited guys to fit in a system...speed and athleticism were at a premium. We now take guys that simply check off a box, some who they don't even see in person, and then leave them buried on a depth chart. I feel for a guy like Scott, who was once sent by Leavitt to close on certain kids and he did....now he must fight with some coordinators and coaches just to look at some recruits. And god forbid they move a player to a position where they can be more conducive to their talents. Any day they want to decide to move Gonzalez to safety, and Garye to LB, and Perry to TE, would be great. They'll never fit in the positions they're buried at right now. I could go on and on about recruiting...don't ever claim Skip can recruit or he's a pretty good recruiter because he signed Price. How about telling him to look at JUCO's that are not spring enrollees but are more talented one day. Instead he brings in these inferior juco's simply because they'll enroll in the spring. Don't get me started.

[Bullpride08]

This is the big east for crying out loud guys, we have the talent. I don't care if we are playing all freshman and sophomores,

I suspect we'd have had a better season if we played on;y freshmen and sophmores

We're doing that now are were not even competitive against a Cinci team that was struggling with injuries and talent issues. Playing kids just because the seniors have given up on you as a HC is not a reason to play youth. The program is in a spiral. The upperclassmen don't have any faith, and no longer respond to the coaching. It's only a matter of time before the youth does that as well.