If USF beats UAB . . .

[S p e n c e]

You know what, you convinced me, you're right.  CJL is god, he can do nothing wrong.  I should have never criticized him.  We should give him a lifetime contract, with a no firing or criticizing clause.  

CJL forever.

[BULLO12]

You know what, you convinced me, you're right.  CJL is god, he can do nothing wrong.  I should have never criticized him.  We should give him a lifetime contract, with a no firing or criticizing clause.  

CJL forever.

Finally you have seen the light...go forth and sin no more.   ;D ;D ;D

[S p e n c e]

Yeah, its not worth it anymore.  

Time will tell the story.

[Jim Johnson]

If the guy at McDonalds screws up my order, sure I complain.  But I don't ask the Manager to fire the guy.  It was one order that was messed up.  If McDonalds screws up my order over and over again, then it's time to go to another restaurant.

Coach Leavitt deserves the respect of being able to work a young team through some struggles without his job being called for.  Criticism is OK, but calling for his firing is unacceptable.

Jake,

To use your same analogy...

If CJL screws up games over and over again, fans wil say it's time to "move on to something else"...

- find something else to do with their entertainment dollar

- root for another team (UF, FSU, UM)

- not donate to the university athletic fund

- stop buying season tickets

- stop buying merchandise

You may claim that "true fans" won't do that... and to a certain extent you would be right.  But it should be obvious to everyone that USF just does not have enough "true fans" to sustain itself.  USF needs the casual fan to be attracted to USF and stay with it to become a "true fan".  With a winning product, that is easy to do -- with a losing product, the challenges become that much harder.

So, if CJL (or his coaching staff) is not able to address problems with the team - to the point that the same mistakes are made over and over - then even we "true fans" should be concerned.  Moreover, we should all feel free to voice those concerns (whether you feel they are valid or not).

Personally, I feel suspense has a point.  He has voiced his criticisms in specific detail.  Those who disagree with him have not been able to provide the same level of detail in their responses.   They threads have gone something like this:

I think CJL should be fired because...

- x

- y

- z

--

Fired? CJL shouldn't be fired.  Anyone who thinks so is a poopy-head.

I understand his frustrations, and hope that you can provide solid reasons for why you feel the way you do.  Who knows, if you can present a coherent, cogent rationale for supporting CJL, you may be able to change people's minds.

---

Now, all that being said... my take on CJL.

1) He has guided a team through unbelievable success.  From no team to a BCS conference in less than a decade is simply amazing.  I am not sure any of the other coaches that applied in 1995 could have done the same thing.

2) He has started making changes to the team to suit the talent available.  Before this season, I think the last time we used a two tight end set was when Chad Barnhardt was our QB.  He also realized before the season started that our running game would be better than our passing game.

3) He lives football. The best coaches do, but not all coaches do.  I just can't see George O'Leary sleeping in his office.

4) He has problems maintaining discipline.  While the penalties have dropped off since the start of the season - there still seems to be problems with both behavior (trash talking, showboating) and play (tackling, dropped passes, etc).

5) He doesn't get involved in the play calling.  Hobbie did okay against Louisville, and has shown on a few occasions that he knows what he's doing.  At the same time, there are far too many plays where I can predict the play he called - and I am watching it on TV.  If I can do that, surely an opposing defensive coordinator can.

6) He hasn't hired a special teams coach.  I know he feels that special teams are an important part of the game - so he coaches them himself.  However, if he hired someone that would work directly with the special teams - he would be flexible enough to work with any unit that is having problems.  The penalties on special teams have really hurt USF this year -- even against Louisville.  A block in the back or a holding penalty can turn a 30 yard return into a 10 yard return - and 20 yards is a lot for our offense this year.

7) While I am not saying that CJL is at this point -- there are situations where the skills and talents of a person in a position has done as much as he could possibly do.  Tony Dungy turned around the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - from losing seasons to winning seasons.  But he could not get the Bucs to the Super Bowl.  Jon Gruden came in, took essentially the same people, and won the Super Bowl.  If the difference wasn't the people, it must have been the way he used the people.  Only time will tell if CJL has reached his "Dungy plateau" or not.   He could be the next Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, and Bobby Bowden... or he could be the next Lou Holtz, Barry Alvarez, or Houston Nutt.

CJL is not perfect.  No one should expect him to be -- those who defend him and those who criticize him.  He is good - and I am waiting to see just how good.  He deserves to be here as long as he wants, provided he understands that sometimes changes need to be made.  What worked in I-AA, doesn't work in I-A; what worked in C-USA, won't work in the Big East.

JMHO :-)

[goodknightfl]

Kerry will pull out OH ;D

[Bullpride08]

Jake,

To use your same analogy...

If CJL screws up games over and over again, fans wil say it's time to "move on to something else"...

- find something else to do with their entertainment dollar

- root for another team (UF, FSU, UM)

- not donate to the university athletic fund

- stop buying season tickets

- stop buying merchandise

You may claim that "true fans" won't do that... and to a certain extent you would be right.  But it should be obvious to everyone that USF just does not have enough "true fans" to sustain itself.  USF needs the casual fan to be attracted to USF and stay with it to become a "true fan".  With a winning product, that is easy to do -- with a losing product, the challenges become that much harder.

So, if CJL (or his coaching staff) is not able to address problems with the team - to the point that the same mistakes are made over and over - then even we "true fans" should be concerned.  Moreover, we should all feel free to voice those concerns (whether you feel they are valid or not).

Personally, I feel suspense has a point.  He has voiced his criticisms in specific detail.  Those who disagree with him have not been able to provide the same level of detail in their responses.   They threads have gone something like this:

I understand his frustrations, and hope that you can provide solid reasons for why you feel the way you do.  Who knows, if you can present a coherent, cogent rationale for supporting CJL, you may be able to change people's minds.

---

Now, all that being said... my take on CJL.

1) He has guided a team through unbelievable success.  From no team to a BCS conference in less than a decade is simply amazing.  I am not sure any of the other coaches that applied in 1995 could have done the same thing.

2) He has started making changes to the team to suit the talent available.  Before this season, I think the last time we used a two tight end set was when Chad Barnhardt was our QB.  He also realized before the season started that our running game would be better than our passing game.

3) He lives football. The best coaches do, but not all coaches do.  I just can't see George O'Leary sleeping in his office.

4) He has problems maintaining discipline.  While the penalties have dropped off since the start of the season - there still seems to be problems with both behavior (trash talking, showboating) and play (tackling, dropped passes, etc).

5) He doesn't get involved in the play calling.  Hobbie did okay against Louisville, and has shown on a few occasions that he knows what he's doing.  At the same time, there are far too many plays where I can predict the play he called - and I am watching it on TV.  If I can do that, surely an opposing defensive coordinator can.

6) He hasn't hired a special teams coach.  I know he feels that special teams are an important part of the game - so he coaches them himself.  However, if he hired someone that would work directly with the special teams - he would be flexible enough to work with any unit that is having problems.  The penalties on special teams have really hurt USF this year -- even against Louisville.  A block in the back or a holding penalty can turn a 30 yard return into a 10 yard return - and 20 yards is a lot for our offense this year.

7) While I am not saying that CJL is at this point -- there are situations where the skills and talents of a person in a position has done as much as he could possibly do.  Tony Dungy turned around the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - from losing seasons to winning seasons.  But he could not get the Bucs to the Super Bowl.  Jon Gruden came in, took essentially the same people, and won the Super Bowl.  If the difference wasn't the people, it must have been the way he used the people.  Only time will tell if CJL has reached his "Dungy plateau" or not.   He could be the next Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, and Bobby Bowden... or he could be the next Lou Holtz, Barry Alvarez, or Houston Nutt.

CJL is not perfect.  No one should expect him to be -- those who defend him and those who criticize him.  He is good - and I am waiting to see just how good.  He deserves to be here as long as he wants, provided he understands that sometimes changes need to be made.  What worked in I-AA, doesn't work in I-A; what worked in C-USA, won't work in the Big East.

JMHO :-)

Jim,

That big problem with criticizing CJL is in your first sentence.

If CJL screws up games over and over again,

Some of you are claiming that Jim Leavitt "screwed up" or in some way lost games, which is entirely erroneous and not the case.

Most of the problems are personnel issues, some in coaching, most in players, that need to be addressed, and to Leavitt's credit he's doing that right now.

Look at the starting line-up on defense tonight:

DE- Simmons, Robinson

DT- Searcy, Chance

SLB- Moffitt

MLB- St. Louis

WLB- Nicholas

CB- Williams, Djuan Brown

S- Camon, and Verpaele.

On a positive, that entire line-up will return next year.  Another interesting point to note- none of the DL were starters against Tennessee Tech.  Also, this is Moffitt's first start, a brilliant idea, at 6-2 235lbs Moffitt is definitely the largest LB we have, and he looks it with those broad shoulders, wide hips, and thick thighs-- unlike Davis and Nicholas that look like they struggle to keep on 215lbs, Moffitt looks every bit of 230lbs or more- he's also played great all season on special teams, he has that intangible where three year's later we'll look back on this day as a special one- the day Moffitt made his first start.  They've added much more size at DT, and... well anyway the youth movement is apparent, and that's with Brown starting ahead of an injured Jenkins.

Just looking at that roster can help us identify the mistakes.

It should be noted that after the UL game the team was practicing on both Saturday, and Sunday, and took an extra-day of practice that the coaches normally would have granted a day-off under these circumstances.

Basically the point I am making is Leavitt isn't "screwing up" games.  The issues he's dealing with are an extremely youthful team, already riddled with injuries, some older players not stepping up to play like seniors (Camon, Battle, and Kobel), a QB that refuses to make that next step in development, and some offensive staff coaching issues.  That about sums up why we're 2-4, and the reason Jim Leavitt's name and the word 'firing' should not even be breathed in the same sentence.

Most of the controllable issues that Jim can deal with will be dealt with in the off-season.   If we faulter again next year, and CJL failed to rattle the offensive coaching staff's cages, then it's time to bark.  By next year we'll be staring at an extremely talented, experienced, and cagy defense- with Johnny Jones back 100% healthy, ditto for Tim Jones, who knows maybe LRS Jr. will be granted a 7th year of eligibility (just kidding of course).

Next season, if little changes are made, and the QB position looks horrific, after finally having quality back-ups, four years with PJ, and loads of athletes, then the word 'fired' could be brought into play.  At this juncture most of the issues with this team are simply going to take time, and experience to improve.

[The_Reaper]

It is not if, BUT WHEN USF BEATS UAB>>>    

[Jim Johnson]

Bien,

I didn't mean to say that CJL was screwing up... I should have prefaced it by saying...

"If, according to his critics, CJL keeps screwing up over and over..."

Still, there are always ramifications when fans of teams accustomed to winning see their teams start losing... (see Zook, Ron; Dolphins, Miami; etc).

USF won't escape these ramifications.

It's just that when some people read criticisms of CJL on this board, they don't want to carry on a rational conversation about the issue.

The remainder of your points are all well taken.  I am trying to remain more positive about the season -- and giving CJL and his staff more of the benefit of the doubt.

Tonight will give us a better idea of where this team really is.

[Jake_Ryan]

Jake,

To use your same analogy...

If CJL screws up games over and over again, fans wil say it's time to "move on to something else"...

- find something else to do with their entertainment dollar

- root for another team (UF, FSU, UM)

- not donate to the university athletic fund

- stop buying season tickets

- stop buying merchandise

You may claim that "true fans" won't do that... and to a certain extent you would be right.  But it should be obvious to everyone that USF just does not have enough "true fans" to sustain itself.  USF needs the casual fan to be attracted to USF and stay with it to become a "true fan".  With a winning product, that is easy to do -- with a losing product, the challenges become that much harder.

So, if CJL (or his coaching staff) is not able to address problems with the team - to the point that the same mistakes are made over and over - then even we "true fans" should be concerned.  Moreover, we should all feel free to voice those concerns (whether you feel they are valid or not).

Personally, I feel suspense has a point.  He has voiced his criticisms in specific detail.  Those who disagree with him have not been able to provide the same level of detail in their responses.   They threads have gone something like this:

I understand his frustrations, and hope that you can provide solid reasons for why you feel the way you do.  Who knows, if you can present a coherent, cogent rationale for supporting CJL, you may be able to change people's minds.

---

Now, all that being said... my take on CJL.

1) He has guided a team through unbelievable success.  From no team to a BCS conference in less than a decade is simply amazing.  I am not sure any of the other coaches that applied in 1995 could have done the same thing.

2) He has started making changes to the team to suit the talent available.  Before this season, I think the last time we used a two tight end set was when Chad Barnhardt was our QB.  He also realized before the season started that our running game would be better than our passing game.

3) He lives football. The best coaches do, but not all coaches do.  I just can't see George O'Leary sleeping in his office.

4) He has problems maintaining discipline.  While the penalties have dropped off since the start of the season - there still seems to be problems with both behavior (trash talking, showboating) and play (tackling, dropped passes, etc).

5) He doesn't get involved in the play calling.  Hobbie did okay against Louisville, and has shown on a few occasions that he knows what he's doing.  At the same time, there are far too many plays where I can predict the play he called - and I am watching it on TV.  If I can do that, surely an opposing defensive coordinator can.

6) He hasn't hired a special teams coach.  I know he feels that special teams are an important part of the game - so he coaches them himself.  However, if he hired someone that would work directly with the special teams - he would be flexible enough to work with any unit that is having problems.  The penalties on special teams have really hurt USF this year -- even against Louisville.  A block in the back or a holding penalty can turn a 30 yard return into a 10 yard return - and 20 yards is a lot for our offense this year.

7) While I am not saying that CJL is at this point -- there are situations where the skills and talents of a person in a position has done as much as he could possibly do.  Tony Dungy turned around the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - from losing seasons to winning seasons.  But he could not get the Bucs to the Super Bowl.  Jon Gruden came in, took essentially the same people, and won the Super Bowl.  If the difference wasn't the people, it must have been the way he used the people.  Only time will tell if CJL has reached his "Dungy plateau" or not.   He could be the next Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, and Bobby Bowden... or he could be the next Lou Holtz, Barry Alvarez, or Houston Nutt.

CJL is not perfect.  No one should expect him to be -- those who defend him and those who criticize him.  He is good - and I am waiting to see just how good.  He deserves to be here as long as he wants, provided he understands that sometimes changes need to be made.  What worked in I-AA, doesn't work in I-A; what worked in C-USA, won't work in the Big East.

JMHO :-)

Yeah, my analogy sucked.  It was the best I could do before heading off to work this AM.

For the record, I quoted the only stat that really matters - 1 losing season in 7.  At the midpoint of a season with 14 Freshmen on the 2 deep, I can't understand why informed fans would be calling for Leavitt's head.  

Hopefully tonight showed some folks that they over-reacted.  Lots of positives tonight to build on for the future.

[Jim Johnson]

Hopefully tonight showed some folks that they over-reacted.  Lots of positives tonight to build on for the future.

Yes there were a lot of positives... a lot of positives... yet there were also some negatives. (So let's not pretend all is wine and roses now.)

-- How many offsides penalties did we need today?

-- Why was Royal allowed back in the game after apparently arguing with the coach on the sidelines?  If he disrespected CJL, he should have gone to the locker room.

-- Gipson still talked trash at the wrong times.

-- Double digit penalties tonight.

I don't mean to "rain on anyone's parade"... here...

Hall is the man!

Peyton can actually catch!

Our defense will be SOLID next year, once the freshmen learn how to play!

USF records set tonight:

- Hall 275 yards

- 28 points in 4th quarter (most in any 4th qtr, tied-most in any quarter)

- Hall 9 TDs this year (tied most in a year)

It looks like CJL has found a mix of personnel and plays that works.  My bet is that he will keep it going against ECU, and USF will get to .500 for the year.

Go Bulls! Beat the Pirates!