UCF players: Ereck Plancher died following intense mat drills

[goodknightfl]

I'm not taking anyones side here.. but these drills happen all the time at all schools.. coaches reguarly chew out players..many players hit the wall and coaches push them thru it.  what coaches saw while looking at many players and what some of those players see from close up, may very well be different.  what some players see looking him in the eye close up is very likely to be different from what a coach sees from 10 feet away while he is in a group of other players.  hindsight is always 20-20.  Players have died in simular situations before.. including FSU, and USF. and unfortunatly it will happen in the future.  You have to push these kids hard to make them the best they can be.  When U push thousands of kids to the wall over the period of years.. there will be times when they get pushed 1 step to far.

[___ Eats It]

I don't think anyone here is "blaming" UCF for Plancher's death.

I think the real question is... why are they lying about the circumstances surrounding it?  For instance, the length of the workout, the intensity of the workout, and O'Leary being actively involved in what was supposed to be a "voluntary" workout without him?

Seems fishy to me, and if UCF is in violation of whatever they're in violation of, they should be aptly punished.  It just sucks that it may take the death of a good kid to bring it to light.

That's all I'm saying.

Oh, and with all the shenanigans going on, let's put the "O'Leary runs a clean program" crap to rest.  You can't use that argument when other schools get in trouble and then fall back on the "All schools do this stuff" excuse when your own house is soiled.

[twillybull]

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Why was O'Leary at a "voluntary" workout if he's not supposed to be there?

If this strory is true then O'Leary and evey coach should be charged with second degree murder. 

[Carolina_Bull]

Another issue that is not discussed yet is that UCF has unrest within its ranks.  College player's bitc*ing to the media about the coaches and the school is quite unique - especially when done in anonymity "because they fear retribution from football coaches".

None of us are CSI investigators (I think), so I'll stick to the sports aspect of it . . . . GOL presides over a divided football team right now and has to re-earn the trust of players who think he is a cover-up artist and the type of guy who would seek "retribution" against his players.  Or he simply needs to root them out and get them the heck off the team.

My credibility when opining on matters UCF is marginilized by the fact I bleed green and gold, but I honestly believe that this could unravel for GOL pretty quick . . . . and unless more info comes out about his involvement it may be a bunch of bull**** and innuendo that brings him down as some sort of fall guy for UCF's administration.

[crambone]

ESPN has a bunch of comments on it, too:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3341341

[twillybull]

Have you watched the O'Leary response video?  He is commenting on the memorial and sending condolences to his family, etc.  The interesting thing (that pissed me off) is that 1 minute into his 2 min statement, he says something like “BUT, we have things we need to get done, we need to move on..….† Why would you say that?  That’s what you say when you get creamed by a crappy team, not immediately after the memorial service for a player who died.  Couldn’t he have just given his condolences and worry about the future the next day? 

I am very proud of the 4 boys that are standing up to this tyrant.  The NCAA and FDLE should conduct an INDEPENDENT investigation into the death and the coaching staff's actions that lead to it.  Something sparked as not being right when the UCF police spokesman specifically stated that "nothing wrong or inappropriate was done" at the end of the news conference on that fatefull day… that's like when a cop pulls someone over for speeding (and asks how fast they were driving) and their immediate statement is: “I do not have 100 lbs of marijuana and cocaine in the trunk.  No sir, no drugs hereâ€Â.

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.  The violation of that unspoken rule has been the hallmark of this incident.  The administration has been very fast in trying to sweep anything and everything they can under the rug.  This leads me to think these kids are telling the TRUTH!  Why would they do anything else in this situation?  At the very least, we cannot believe a WORD from O’Leary as he lied upfront about not even being there.  Now he’s admitting it?  WTF people?!?!?  I could not imagine my reaction if that was my son, but it would most definitely involve extreme physical and emotional violence.

[Carolina_Bull]

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Why was O'Leary at a "voluntary" workout if he's not supposed to be there?

If this strory is true then O'Leary and every coach should be charged with second degree murder. 

This is why he was not so forthcoming.  Even though criminal charges in this case are ludicrous (civil liability is a completely different story), O'Leary definitely did some risk analysis immediately after Plancher fell and decided to keep his mouth shut.  Same goes for the suits at UCF.

We'll hear what O'leary has to say at a deposition in about two years.

Your whole "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing." is quaint.  I use it with my three year old.  But you are dreaming if you think an adult who faces a multi-million dollar lawsuit (and 2nd deg. Murder charges in your mind )  is going to talk a lot until ordered to do so by a court.

[Orlando Bull]

I don't really know what to think here, however, if you look at the Ecks situation here, it would have been very different if the trainer wasn't able to keep her alive. The reports we got were that she collapsed during routine "walk-throughs" or something to that effect. That is possibly true, but the odds are that the University released that statement out of fear initially. It's a lot easier to say he/she collapsed during routine drills as opposed to he/she collapsed because we were pushing the envelope in extreme heat without water breaks, etc.

The part that is scary is that he apparently passed out at a practice last season. Considering what happened to Keely, it should have occured to UCF to have the kid checked out more more in depth. 18-year old athletes (he wasn't an OL, he was one of your specimen athletes) typically aren't going to pass out just because. Something had to cause it.

Anyway, because of the timing, I think that we can look at the Ecks situation, be thankful that our trainer did an outstanding job, and try to realize that it was probably no fault of the coaching staff, trainers, or anyone else involved.

Nothing positive can come out of this article, it is irresponsible to print in my opinion. How many of you were calling for Greg's head when he printed the Moffit story? This is similar, all that can come frmo it is tearing people down. Whether it is GOL, the trainers, or whoever else, what was the purpose of the report? If the players feel strongly that the coaches were to blame, they should have spoken to UCF administration, the police, or someone with way more authority than the sentinel. The story is disheartening to say the least, but other than being informative from a teammates perspective, it does nothing but sell some papers for the slantinel.

[twillybull]

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Why was O'Leary at a "voluntary" workout if he's not supposed to be there?

If this strory is true then O'Leary and every coach should be charged with second degree murder. 

This is why he was not so forthcoming.  Even though criminal charges in this case are ludicrous (civil liability is a completely different story), O'Leary definitely did some risk analysis immediately after Plancher fell and decided to keep his mouth shut.  Same goes for the suits at UCF.

We'll hear what O'leary has to say at a deposition in about two years.

Your whole "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing." is quaint.  I use it with my three year old.  But you are dreaming if you think an adult who faces a multi-million dollar lawsuit (and 2nd deg. Murder charges in your mind )  is going to talk a lot until ordered to do so by a court.

Hazing is considered a criminal activity.  If the player's allegations are true, then it was hazing (a criminal activity) by the coach.  Why would these kids come forward to the people they claim are intimidating them?  They are coming forward though, which is why there needs to be an independent investigation.  Those actions claimed by these kids, if true, either partially or wholly influenced the circumstances in which this kid died, pre-existing heart condition or not.  If this happened at a fraternity house during an initiation ritual don't you think there would be criminal charges (manslaughter) against those that were in charge, let alone those cursing and taunting him?   

[CyberBull]

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Why was O'Leary at a "voluntary" workout if he's not supposed to be there?

If this strory is true then O'Leary and evey coach should be charged with second degree murder. 

that is kind of extreme, especially when the other  100 kids made it through alive while participtating in the same workout.

The troubling part is UCF's less than honest descriptions of the event. They were either completely inept in handling the situation or not telling the truth.

I'm sure the NCAA will ask what O'Leary was doing during a off season workout, where he was actively coaching the kids. The fact that the players fear retaliation makes them even more of  a target for an investigation.  O'Leary has a history of not telling the truth....which is also going to draw attention, and this is what UCF signed up for when it hired a coach with murky past.