Wow did we miss out....

[windbane]

I think it is silly to say that Tampa is a bball town when it clearly isn't.  I think it is silly to suggest that the dome would sel out every game if we had a winning team.  I think the fallacies have gotten so deep around here that nobody knows what reality is anymore.

In 1994 the Bucs were coming off of averaging less than 50,000 fans a game, near the bottom of the NFL. There was talk about the viability of professional football in Tampa and ever conversations about moving the team to Orlando/Osceola County if a new stadoum deal wasn't reached. I think you would have been crazy to say Tampa was a football city at the time. In fact I think most the excuses center around the fact that more people had interest in the college game (namely UF and FSU).

In 1999-2000  there were discussions as to whether Tampa was a hockey town, they couldn't give away tickets to games at the Ice Palace. Many were discussing the long term viability of hockey in Tampa, the team was coming off several disappointing seasons and hockey in Florida was hurting. Flash ahead and right now the Lightning are THIRD in hockey attendance with almost 100% sellouts nightly. Tampa wasn't a hockey town then, but for some reason it is now...

There is no doubt in my mind that a winning basketball team would draw well in Tampa. I'm not saying sellouts nightly, but well. To suggest that it cannot because a team that is 55-87 the last 5 years isn't drawing well is ignorant.

stop it, joe, you are making too much sense.  usfmikeB won't be able to live with himself if he finally figures out he doesn't know everything about tampa and every one of its' athletic teams.

[USFMikeB]

I don't care what you guys think of me or my opinion, feel free to post whatever you want.  Reality is that Tampa is not a bball town, never has been.  To say that Tampa would automatically support a winning USF bball team is a fallacy that isn't based on any fact whatsoever.

You think that the Bucs situation is comparable to a potential winning USF bball team?  Then explain to me how USF football, which is an awesome program, hasn't captured the Tampa fans?  Why does football have just 13,000 revenue generating season tickets?  Since Tampa is such an awesome bandwagon town that is just waiting to jump on a winner, why doesn't the city support USF football more?

You think that the Lightning is comparable to USF bball?  Laughable.  The Lightning drew well immeidately from their inception.  Why?   Because there are so many Midwesterners in Tampa.  Why are there so many Midwesterners in Tampa?  Because I-75 runs straight up to the midwest.  The Midwest LOVES hockey.  The NHL knew a team in Tampa would succeed.  They were right.  There is no comparison between the NHL and USF bball.  If you think there is, you're delusional.

If Tampa is such a bball town, why don't they have a franchise?  Because Tampa isn't a bball town, and nobody in Tampa is bucking to put an NBA team in the city, and the NBA isn't bucking to put a team in the city.  The NBA sought out smaller cities for NBA franchises rather than try to get a team installed in Tampa.  Wow, the NBA doesn't want to put a team in Tampa, doesn't that tell you something?

You guys live in lala land.  You should have gone to UCiF, where the "what if" is the accepted norm.  I'll stick to reality.  Thanks for playing.

[Joe]

I don't care what you guys think of me or my opinion, feel free to post whatever you want.  Reality is that Tampa is not a bball town, never has been.  To say that Tampa would automatically support a winning USF bball team is a fallacy that isn't based on any fact whatsoever.

Completely agree with that. I wouldn't say it's a complete fallacy because the city has been known to jump on bandwagons in the fast.

You think that the Bucs situation is comparable to a potential winning USF bball team?  Then explain to me how USF football, which is an awesome program, hasn't captured the Tampa fans?  Why does football have just 13,000 revenue generating season tickets?  Since Tampa is such an awesome bandwagon town that is just waiting to jump on a winner, why doesn't the city support USF football more?

USF does have an awesome football program, but 9-4 seasons have been seen by most in this state to mean crap. Further, while the city of Tampa itself has one college program, the shadows of UF and FSU do cast pretty well over the city. When USF is regularly winning and collecting conference titles you'll see a major attendance boost. No doubt. As for the Bucs situation, I don't believe it's completely comparable, but it's not a situation that you shouldn't consider when looking at whether a college basketball team could draw well.

You think that the Lightning is comparable to USF bball?  Laughable.  The Lightning drew well immeidately from their inception.  Why?   Because there are so many Midwesterners in Tampa.  Why are there so many Midwesterners in Tampa?  Because I-75 runs straight up to the midwest.  The Midwest LOVES hockey.  The NHL knew a team in Tampa would succeed.  They were right.  There is no comparison between the NHL and USF bball.  If you think there is, you're delusional.

All expansion franchises in the 4 major sports have drawn well their 1st few seasons the last 25 years, leagues have sought to assure that there aren't any attendance problems.. The NHL themselves said they took a chance on Tampa Bay when it came to expansion. Regardless the Lightning had their lean years after the honeymoon period, making the playoffs and the opening of the SPT Forum attendance dropped heavily.

Once again there is not a direct corralation but it is a factor that you have to consider.

If Tampa is such a bball town, why don't they have a franchise?  Because Tampa isn't a bball town, and nobody in Tampa is bucking to put an NBA team in the city, and the NBA isn't bucking to put a team in the city.  The NBA sought out smaller cities for NBA franchises rather than try to get a team installed in Tampa.  Wow, the NBA doesn't want to put a team in Tampa, doesn't that tell you something?

You completely ignored what I wrote earlier. Tampa (investors representing) approached the NBA when discussions of expansion were coming around in 1984-85. However, they were getting beat to hell by a guy named Pat Williams who was representing Orlando for expansion. Orlando was offering exclusivity in the market (no other pro teams) and a more rounded arena plan. Tampa's investors withdrew. A few years later Tampa decided to focus on the NHL as an arenasport.

No one knows for sure whether the NBA would or wouldn't have put a team in Tampa. However, there is a team 75 miles East, the NBA isn't going to try and disprute any markets, just as the NHL wouldn't try and throw a team in Orlando.

It also is a big reason why Jacksonville got the nod over Orlando in 1993 for the NFL's expansion.

You guys live in lala land.  You should have gone to UCiF, where the "what if" is the accepted norm.  I'll stick to reality.  Thanks for playing.

Why not play what if? When has Tampa had a successful major basketball team? USF of the early 90s? They were decent but it's much different going into the tournament as a 5-8 seed than it is as a 11 or 15 seed (Our NCAA seeds respectively).

I don't think it will happen for awhile, but I believe that USF will have good-great crowds when the time comes.

[Triple B]

I think a winning basketball team would draw fine.

I'm not sure what your definition of "fine" is but Seth had winning seasons his last 6 here. Check the attendance levels and see if those fall under your definition of "fine".

I'm not talking the typical Seth Greenberg 16-14 year. Winning meaning at least sniffing an NCAA bid. I know this porgram has a lot to do before it's at that level (and please don't group me with the Huggins people)

However, Tampa loves a winner. I believe basketball would draw well if this team were at that level.

I should have asked what your definition of "winning" was instead of "fine".  

I do think of we if we get back to the Greenberg w/l numbers while in the BE, I think the attendance figures would surpass those of back then.... mostly due to students catching on. Regardless, though, and what started all this, the thought that if Huggy was here we'd be selling out every home game from the outset is ludicrous.

[Joe]

Regardless, though, and what started all this, the thought that if Huggy was here we'd be selling out every home game from the outset is ludicrous.

Agreed it's gonna take more than a coach.

[HaulingBull Sucks]

Regardless, though, and what started all this, the thought that if Huggy was here we'd be selling out every home game from the outset is ludicrous.

Agreed it's gonna take more than a coach.

Yep, It's going to take a miracle. ;D

[Guest Rueben_Horowitz]

You guys are in complete denial; Huggy would have packed the Sundome. Every home game sold out? Maybe not every home game...But most of them for sure.

Just please explain why you would not rather have Huggins here right now? Anyone? Bueller?

[Joe]

Rueb,

I don't buy that one bit.

1) K-STate has been a bubble team the last 2 years. They have not had a losing season in 4 years (including this one)

2) They averaged a shade less than 10k for their conference games last year. This year They are averaging a shade over 13k (13340 is a sellout) They had good crowd going already for the conference games...

3) They have only sold out 7 of 15 games...what makes you believe that USF would make that magical jump from 4,000 to 10,000+ nightly?

4) They are in a basketball crazy area. Their biggest rival is Kansas...what is Kansas good at? Not to mention the run Witchita State has gotten the last fe seasons.

5) They have the propensity to draw well, since 1995 they have been to the tourny once. In that time they have avergaed over 7500 fans a game (even with very bad years). At USF's peak attendance (be it in teh Metro Conference) we averaged similar.

6) This is all moot because we didn't have $1.2M+ to spend on a basketball coach. And don't feed me, "he'd make that money for us" Because USF hasn't CLOSE to the donors that K-State has. Simiply put committing that type of money on a basketball coach could put the athletic department in a world of fianancial trouble without the donors to help back it.

[Triple B]

You guys are in complete denial; Huggy would have packed the Sundome. Every home game sold out? Maybe not every home game...But most of them for sure.

"See Joe's reply"

Just please explain why you would not rather have Huggins here right now? Anyone? Bueller?

I'll give you Huggy would have been a short term improvement but I think the USF administration AND influential boosters are looking for a long term answer .... with less baggage.

And I'm not saying that Mac IS that answer. I'm just not yet completely convinced he's not.

[Guest Rueben_Horowitz]

Rueb,

I don't buy that one bit.

1) K-STate has been a bubble team the last 2 years. They have not had a losing season in 4 years (including this one)

A bubble team? They were 6-10 in conference each of the past 3 years. 4-12 the year b/f that.

2) They averaged a shade less than 10k for their conference games last year. This year They are averaging a shade over 13k (13340 is a sellout) They had good crowd going already for the conference games...

Fair enough. Nice facts.

3) They have only sold out 7 of 15 games...what makes you believe that USF would make that magical jump from 4,000 to 10,000+ nightly?

Two reasons-

1) The Tampa metro area has millions more people than Manhattan KS.

2) USF has 20k more students than KSU

We're talking 6k people; that's peanuts for a city/University of our size.

4) They are in a basketball crazy area. Their biggest rival is Kansas...what is Kansas good at? Not to mention the run Witchita State has gotten the last fe seasons.

Agreed. In Tampa, USF athletics have to compete with more forms of entertainment.

5) They have the propensity to draw well, since 1995 they have been to the tourny once. In that time they have avergaed over 7500 fans a game (even with very bad years). At USF's peak attendance (be it in teh Metro Conference) we averaged similar.

I don't know if that's a fair comparison.

6) This is all moot because we didn't have $1.2M+ to spend on a basketball coach. And don't feed me, "he'd make that money for us" Because USF hasn't CLOSE to the donors that K-State has. Simiply put committing that type of money on a basketball coach could put the athletic department in a world of fianancial trouble without the donors to help back it.

Agree to disagree on this one...I'm 100% positive that USF could have made it happen if they wanted to.

Rueb