UCF Football History - Part 1: 1979 - 1992

[Bullpride08]

ahem-- we never played BC-C

Things were way different back in the early 80's.  No BCS, etc.  We also didn't luck into the Big East by virtue of having a hoops team.

Huh?  How about the fact we were competing and winning in conferences with many of these guys when you all were DII in the 80's, and very early 90's.  UCF had a head start with a football program but USF had a head start with a well rounded 1-A athletic program.  Bouncing around conferences with brethren the likes of Vtech, UL, Cinci, ECU, and others garnering name recognition and respect among the athletic departments in the East. 

What does that have to do with the fact that luckoflakes rather than merit based football achievement landed you in a BCS conference?  I mean ****, Miami of Ohio has been playing football for probably a century and is still waiting.  That's what's so screwed up about D-1 football today, the sheer inequity of it all.

Huh?  Again, huh?  Where was Miami of Ohio in the equation?  When was merit based football achievement the pre-requisite for admission into the BE?  At the time UCF didn't have any 'merit based football achievement', Miami of Ohio's 'merit based football achievement' was fleeting at beset.  The BE looked for a school that possessed the entire athletic 'platform' necessary to make the jump quickly, and which was scalable.  At the time USF was that school.  UCF had all these great 'facilities' still on the drawing board, they were playing olympic sports at the time in the TAAC/A-Sun generally calling schools like Lipscomb, and Garner-Webb as conference rivals.  Whereas we were playing UL, TCU, Marquette, Depaul, Cinci, St. Louis, and others in C-USA.  We had the clearer platform for ALL SPORTS, that allowed for the potential to immediate success.  If you want to talk about football achievement well coming off successive seasons of 8-3, 9-2 and 7-4, winning numerous 1-A games, and beating a BE team (Pitt) didn't hurt our selection either.  In that time UCF was 6-5, 6-6, and 3-9, so it wasn't like your 'merit based football achievements' were winning any awards.  It was clear, at the point of selection, when an 'all-sport' member had to be selected by the BE that USF possessed everything they were looking for, 1. an athletic program that had grown and maintained a competitiveness against future BE opponents in all sports, 2. was accustom budget wise to be immediately competitive in the BE, 3. had the facilities necessary to host primary BE events (we had the SunDome and at the time your convocation center was only a dream), 4. was a large institution in a primary television market with signs of support from their community (we have a larger tv market than Orlando, Greenville, NC, and Memphis, TN, and our basketball program had received solid community support during those periods).

Why do you think this was all about football?  It was an "All Sport Membership" to the BE, not a "Football Only".  When the BE was considering "Football Only" before BC's departure UCF was in-play, but once BC's announced departure and it was clear an "All-Sport" member had to be selected and we surged ahead of UCF primarily because of our contacts, and relationships in C-USA having played on a larger platform then UCF in the TAAC/A-Sun, and the SunDome, knowing we had the ready made facility to at least accomodate bringing in teams of the BE's stature. 

There was some calculating and intelligence made in the decision.  Just because you're all emotionally upset about it doesn't mean at the time USF wasn't the right choice.  At the time of the selection UCF was just a bit behind on their plan for the facilities and athletic program development.  If the selection was made today then it would clearly have been a toss up assuming you would have been in C-USA with us.  But it was not, and it was all about timing and USF being ready for the 'all sport' jump at the time.  Feel free to debate and spin but I can assure you this is what was won us the spot....not someone pulling straws in a back room, or because UCF got 'jobbed'....blame your inability to make a meaningful conference jump in the late 90's when you tried to get to C-USA, but were denied and ECU was selected instead.  That, more than anything, is what really killed UCF's potential to get to the BE.

[Bullpride08]

ahem-- we never played BC-C

Things were way different back in the early 80's.  No BCS, etc.  We also didn't luck into the Big East by virtue of having a hoops team.

Huh?  How about the fact we were competing and winning in conferences with many of these guys when you all were DII in the 80's, and very early 90's.  UCF had a head start with a football program but USF had a head start with a well rounded 1-A athletic program.  Bouncing around conferences with brethren the likes of Vtech, UL, Cinci, ECU, and others garnering name recognition and respect among the athletic departments in the East. 

What does that have to do with the fact that luckoflakes rather than merit based football achievement landed you in a BCS conference?  I mean ****, Miami of Ohio has been playing football for probably a century and is still waiting.  That's what's so screwed up about D-1 football today, the sheer inequity of it all.

It's only inequity if you're the one being passed up.

If you guys had won ONE meaningful game in your long, sorry history, you might have had a case.  As it is, the Big East laughed at you.

Nothing was handed to our program for free since 1979.  Not luckoflakes, not BCS realignment, not good fortune, not fair weather, nothing. That's why it has been a pleasure to see us go from BBQ fundraisers to BCS facilities and beyond.  We weren't just handed everything on a plater.

Hold on Chad...we were never handed anything on a platter chief...and clearly your knowledge and understanding of our athletics and yours is skewed at best.  Sure UCF has had a great rise too, and you've done wonders in the past 10 years overcoming some very, very bad moves in the 80's, and early 90's.  UCF got itself in bad debt during the Saban era, and in the early 90's.  You were DII in athletics up until 1991 I believe, and by the time you started pulling yourselves out of debt and looking for a meaningful conference it was too late.  Your AD Sloan did a good job managing your debt, but also did a poor job of managing the conference admission process.  UCF's early years were a history lesson in some bad missteps that caused your school dearly when conference selection came around for the BE.  In the mid-90's UCF waffled and didn't try to line-up membership in the original C-USA...that move killed them moving forward.  They spent another 6-8 years trying to beg their way in, and by the time it was obvious they had to find a home for football opted for the MAC, which did you no justice in the way of media profiling.  So, at the time of selection for the BE C-USA was touted as almost a 7th major conference in hoops and football.  We had programs like TCU, UL, and Cinci knocking off BCS programs regularly and with heisman hopefuls.  You were in TAAC/A-SUN for olympic sports, and the MAC for football.  Not by desire but by necessity, and it was an awful platform for UCF to promote their athletics from....

Give yourselves a great pat on the back.  You've overcome some great adversity, and prospered, but some early missteps are what kept you a step behind when it came to conference realignment because the BE turned to C-USA based on prestige, and notoriety for it's exclusive membership selections.  If anyone can really truly make an argument for being 'jobbed' by USF based solely on our potential it is Memphis.  They had a decent football program, strong built in rivalries, and an amazing hoops program.  USF getting the nod over them was more so based solely on our potential in football, and our fertile recruiting and tv region. 

[UCFChad]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good and fair post until the part about getting in based on football potential.  That isn't true at all, otherwise they would have taken Southern Miss.  It had to do with hoops, plain and simple.  I know CJL has done a great job, no one needs to take offense, but don't tell me the tailwinds weren't at your back.  UCF has always faced gale force winds and luck/fate/fortune hasn't been a factor, plain and simple.  That is what divides us.  If it were football based potential it would have been advantage UCF, no question.  By the way, a few good years for us or you doesn't make a great program. One C-USA title doesn't suddenly transform us into the big 3.  That takes titles and history.

[TheBullies]

It was hard work by our President and AD at the the time that enabled us to take advantages of opportunities presented... UCF HAD opportunities but decided to sit around and hope for something else. You might equate this to someone who's path is blocked by a brick wall. UCF tries to get through it by continuously walking right into it and bloodying their heads (or sitting there and thinking about how awesome they would be IF someone hadn't put the wall there)... USF walks around it and looks at you like you are a retard.

You are seriously making an argument that our awesome hoops program got us in the Big East?

Fate/luck/fortune doesn't divide us. Had nothing to do with it. You make your own. Another fundamental difference between us fans and why you guys get the 'IF' tag. We don't play "only ifs," we control our own destiny.

Oh, we know a few good years doesn't make a great program, but if you look at CJLs all-time wins/losses, I think we're off to a great start.

One more thing, prereq for being in the "big" anything (which you can actually begin to call the "big four" if you like, several media outlets have), is being in a BCS conference. You know, making it possible to play for the national championship instead of the C-DOA trophy.

[Bullpride08]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good and fair post until the part about getting in based on football potential.  That isn't true at all, otherwise they would have taken Southern Miss.  It had to do with hoops, plain and simple.  I know CJL has done a great job, no one needs to take offense, but don't tell me the tailwinds weren't at your back.  UCF has always faced gale force winds and luck/fate/fortune hasn't been a factor, plain and simple.  That is what divides us.  If it were football based potential it would have been advantage UCF, no question.   By the way, a few good years for us or you doesn't make a great program. One C-USA title doesn't suddenly transform us into the big 3.  That takes titles and history.

Wait, wait, wait....do you read chad your just pop off after reading the first line of my small, and concise dissertation ;D  I said it wsa hoops, and OLYMPIC SPORTS overall that brought USF into the BE.  You cannot look someone stone faced in 2003 and try to explain to them that the competition level, and talent level you had and faced in the TAAC/A-SUN was commensurate with what USF had and faced in C-USA.  The Big East wasn't looking for promises and potential they were looking for immediate viability, and scalability for all sports including football.  USF brought that to the equation, and UCF at the time, based purely on hunches, probably only brought football from that definition.  As far as the aloof schools like USM, and ECU, well those schools had lots of strikes against them moreso than bad luck....poor academics, poor markets, difficult to location, get to.  They had up and down Olympics programs, lower athletic budgets, and both lacked some marque selective process.  At the time, when they were deciding it really was Memphis, USF, and UCF,  once it was decided it would be 'all sport' UCF dropped out and it was Memphis and USF.  USF got the nod over Memphis for television reasons, freshness (meaning Memphis has had 100 years to get football right and they've managed to step all over themselves and their name is forever emblazened as a national 'also-ran'), and location (USF was in a larger television market, and fertile recruiting ground but more so many BE people thought USF had limited overlap in market, for example Memphis is sandwiched between UT, Vandy, and ARK, and those small populous areas had little room to appreciate a fourth team, whereas USF had from Inverness south to Naples, and a rapidly growing area that USF had almost no competition in that area for fans).

UCF in no way was a shoe-in based on football.  They're success had been fleeting to that point (as had ours) and your season ticket totals were pathetic, even compared to ours at the time...check it out if you don't believe me.  UCF from 03-05 was hovering around 9,000 season tixs. 

Anway, UCF fans such as yourself should worry about the future and not the past.  The missteps that cost UCF a potential to be in the BE started decades before, first with the hiring of Lou Saban and his lack of fiscal sensibility for a small DII school, and carried forward through the mid-90's when Sloan didn't have the moxie to get you into play for admission into C-USA from the outset.

[TheBullies]

Let's not forget that USF also beat Big East teams BEFORE joining the Big East.

UCF has yet to beat a Big East team.

[Triple B]

One C-USA title doesn't suddenly transform us into the big 3.  That takes titles and history.

Just so we're clear on this, no amount of CUSA titles will transform you into the Big 3 4 or 5 ....

[Triple B]

Let's not forget that USF also beat Big East teams BEFORE joining the Big East.

UCF has yet to beat a Big East team.

 

You need to clarify that with "bowl bound" Big East team ... If not they'll be yapping about having beaten SEC and ACC teams.

[TheBullies]

Yeah, I just wanted to point out that it was one of the reasons we were invited into the Big East....

Not "luck."

[UCFChad]

I talked to a UF fan in law school today and he agreed after my discussion/thesis/essay/proposition/ that USF was beyond lucky to get into a BCS conference.  He also agreed that UCF, while 0-3, will pull even within 3-4 years by virtue of O'Leary and his coaching prowes.. That is all, boys.  ;D