Out of conference schedule

[Bull94]

I could see adding 1 more to replace Temple but they have already replaced the 3 that left for the ACC. It worked fine before. I don't see any need to split BCS money any further. The BCS tried to have ND join a conference and they balked. I would have liked to see them stick it to them. I think the settlement wasn't as harsh as it should have been for ND. If they make the BCS once in 10 years they basically break even. Any less and they make more $$. A watered down league might allow you to have a championship game but would it amount to  greater per member revenue after the split? Probably not.

Army and Navy have far greater national appeal than any of the others mentioned. They may not add to the strength of schedule but they sure would add to the character of the league. Any deals associated with Army and ND for that matter can be worked around.

Both VTech and Miami used this league to grow into big time programs. Why not follow their lead? Don't cheapen the league by adding these others.

[Jim Johnson]

Jim, I agreed with only adding 9th team whoever it is.   I understand the Army/Navy deal.  I just think it's gimmicky and at this pt. in time both schools ultimately will be a drag on SOS.  I don't want the Academies in MY conference.  MY as in the conference of the team I've chosen to support financially.  You will havta come up w/some helluva argument w/some good stats to change my cave man mentality/brain.  Ima engineer so numbers are important.

You may be right that it's gimmicky.  But your choices are limited.

1) The Big East will NOT split along football & basketball lines.

2) The Big East will NOT add a 17th all-sport member.

3) There are only 4 I-A football programs that are independent of a conference: Notre Dame, Temple, Army, & Navy.

 - Notre Dame football will NEVER join the Big East.  If they ever join a conference it will be the Big 10.

 - Army just quit a conference because of scheduling - they wanted to play more than just Air Force and Navy OOC.  However, if they are not required to play 8 conferencegames - then they might get the best of both worlds.

 - Navy has said they don't want a conference.  However, if they are not required to play 8 conferencegames - then they might get the best of both worlds.

 - Temple was kicked out of the Big East.  It isn't likely that they will be invited back in.

As for UCF, I want my alma mater to have a bonified in-state rival.  Someone we all hate, that hate us and we play every yr and is within reasonable driving distance.  FSU has UF & Miami.  UF has FSU, GA & TN.  Miami has FSU.  The Top 3 are not going to open the door for USF.  The Bulls are gonna havta smash it open.  Ultimately playing UCF, FIU, & FAU give them an opportunity to climb over us.  I am stuck on the fence about UCF.  USF actually had the conference rival in USM and UAB IMO.  If USF could compete in BB vs UL and win in FB this season then I believe that would be good for conference rivalries.

I don't want to re-hash why I believe a USF-UCF rivalry would be a GREAT idea.  Suffice to say that if FSU won't even talk to us and Florida won't come to play in Tampa - our choices are somewhat limited.    Besides, away games in Orlando will draw more USF fans than any other road venue (with the possible exception of bowl games).  So why not build a solid rivalry with UCF?

Rivalries, unlike what others say, do not come about based on play -- they come about based on the fans.  One can see from the USF-UCF board alone that there is enough animosity between these two schools to support the idea that they are our biggest rival.  After all, did anyone mention starting a USM-USF board ??

However, there is no reason WHY such a rivalry has to be in-conference.  Florida-Florida State isn't.  So USF-UCF could be a perennial OOC game.  It makes scheduling opponents that much easier.

So I am not really sure where this leaves your discussion.  You started by saying 7 conference games sucks and then spelled out what you thought was a good 12-team conference.  When Bien pointed out problems with that, you agreed and fell back to asking for a 9th team.

I pointed out the limited options in adding a ninth team.

Basically, I am saying - yes it does suck, but we have to learn to live with it because it ain't gonna change.

[WoolyBully]

As far as Nat'l appeal - Army & Navy both have it over [insert CUSA residue here].  Any f'ball additions to the NBE would necessarily have to come from non-BCS conference member (e.g. no one is leaving the ACC/SEC/BIG X/BIG XII for the NBE).  

Given that Army just got it's DD-214 from CUSA, they're not re-upping for any conference ..though I don't know if the BCS moniker could sway their opinion. At worst, Army can pick and choose whose OOC game they want to be.

[bullzpen4636]

well if there HAS to be a rivalry, let's stir it up then, we should set it up like west va/marshall and demand a 3 for 1.  ;D

[Cubanbull]

There is a BIG difference between the Big12,SEC and ACC holding a championship game when their BCS bid is NOT under attack and the BE which could run the risk of a high BCS team losing in championship game and sending a weaker team to the delight of the BE bashers.

This is were the MWC made a good move and CUSA dropped the ball. A MWC champion that goes 11-0 is certain to get a BCS bid, A CUSA 11-0 team runs the risk of losing a championship game and losing that bid. Imn other word is another hurdle to clear.

The BE staying at 9 would be the best choice.

[BullDoug]

Ya know with 8 BE teams the BCS $ cut is larger.  Not knowing how the $ split is done but my guess is the team playing in the bowl gets a larger cut then the rest of the conference splits the $.  The difference in a 1/7 and 1/8 split of the leftovers is 1.78%.  That's $18K per $1MM pay off.  Is $20K-$40K worth (basically a trainers salary) having to schedule another OOC per year?  You make the call 'cuz I dunno.

Wooly gotta call ya out.  Saying Navy and Army having more of a national following of "X" CUSA, MWC, or MAC is not worth the effort even to type it.  It's a farce.  True college football fans could give a rat's patootie about the academies.  They are marginally competitive at best.  When was the last time before last season one of them won a bowl and how many combined yrs have they been playing.  The academies belong in the Ivory or Patriot leagues..PERIOD!  And I was totally embarrassed our Bulls handed them a game last season too.  That's JMO.

NBE can not attract a quality 9th football member as a football only.  The only legitimate quality choice for a 9th addition is the dream - Touchdown Jesus/Notre Dame or by God Happy Valley/Penn State.  That's it.

[Bull94]

Ya know with 8 BE teams the BCS $ cut is larger.  Not knowing how the $ split is done but my guess is the team playing in the bowl gets a larger cut then the rest of the conference splits the $.  The difference in a 1/7 and 1/8 split of the leftovers is 1.78%.  That's $18K per $1MM pay off.  Is $20K-$40K worth (basically a trainers salary) having to schedule another OOC per year?  You make the call 'cuz I dunno.

Wooly gotta call ya out.  Saying Navy and Army having more of a national following of "X" CUSA, MWC, or MAC is not worth the effort even to type it.  It's a farce.  True college football fans could give a rat's patootie about the academies.  They are marginally competitive at best.  When was the last time before last season one of them won a bowl and how many combined yrs have they been playing.  The academies belong in the Ivory or Patriot leagues..PERIOD!  And I was totally embarrassed our Bulls handed them a game last season too.  That's JMO.

NBE can not attract a quality 9th football member as a football only.  The only legitimate quality choice for a 9th addition is the dream - Touchdown Jesus/Notre Dame or by God Happy Valley/Penn State.  That's it.

BullDoug,

The split can mean much more than $20-$40k. I'm not sure of the split either but if the BCS pays $14.5m and the representative gets half ( $7.25m) that leaves another $7.25m to split.

6 ways amounts to $1,208,333.

7 ways = $1,035,714.

That's a difference of $172,619. Not an insignificant sum.

Plus you have 1 more team vying for the $7.25m each year. I still believe we should add one more to round out the league though.

Army and Navy have a much higher following nationally. Didn't ESPN just sign Army to some special deal to show their games nationally? I don't think they would do this for the other CUSA teams even if they were independents. Army and Navy have much more prestegious programs. The SEC should kick out Vandy and invite a more competitive team but they won't. I think they have won like one conference game in the past 10 years.

[Jim Johnson]

BullDoug,

The split can mean much more than $20-$40k. I'm not sure of the split either but if the BCS pays $14.5m and the representative gets half ( $7.25m) that leaves another $7.25m to split.

6 ways amounts to $1,208,333.

7 ways = $1,035,714.

That's a difference of $172,619. Not an insignificant sum.

Plus you have 1 more team vying for the $7.25m each year. I still believe we should add one more to round out the league though.

Army and Navy have a much higher following nationally. Didn't ESPN just sign Army to some special deal to show their games nationally? I don't think they would do this for the other CUSA teams even if they were independents. Army and Navy have much more prestegious programs. The SEC should kick out Vandy and invite a more competitive team but they won't. I think they have won like one conference game in the past 10 years.

The winner doesn't get half.  It gets about $4.5 million, the rest is split among the other teams and the conference. (Yes the conference gets a share - how do you think they pay Tranghese's salary?).

(The $4.5 figure comes from the 'Notre Dame' clause.  Because Notre Dame doesn't have a conference to split the other month, the BCS lowered the ND payment to what the other schools get for going to a BCS bowl).

Don't forget that adding another team splits all other sources of revenue as well: television, other bowls, etc.  So it becomes a significant amount of money to share.

If you add teams, you lose revenue.  In fact, I would say that it would be more profitable to play a I-AA team than to add a 9th member.

[bulls96go]

The winner doesn't get half.  It gets about $4.5 million, the rest is split among the other teams and the conference. (Yes the conference gets a share - how do you think they pay Tranghese's salary?).

(The $4.5 figure comes from the 'Notre Dame' clause.  Because Notre Dame doesn't have a conference to split the other month, the BCS lowered the ND payment to what the other schools get for going to a BCS bowl).

Don't forget that adding another team splits all other sources of revenue as well: television, other bowls, etc.  So it becomes a significant amount of money to share.

If you add teams, you lose revenue.  In fact, I would say that it would be more profitable to play a I-AA team than to add a 9th member.

AHH finanly the hugh culverhouse argument surfaces!

more profit!  more profit!