We've come a long way

[MikeG]

but let's not forget that we have an even longer road ahead of us to be a real player in college football.

Yeah-- we might have the talent on the field or some special athletes. And we are improving in many areas all the time. THe problem is that we have so much ground to cover to catch up to what the established guys already have set up.

It really comes down to a couple of things imo:

1) National presence-- getting in the Big East was HUGE, despite the bashing it took last season. And for those who make light of the Big East as a BCS member, I have to ask-- what other BCS conference did USF really have any shot of joining? I think we are lucky to be in the BE but it will take several years, if not decades, to gain the type of respect you see afforded to the FSU's, UF's, Miami's of college ball.

2) Money -- our alumni base is tiny and young relatively speaking to the other guys we are trying to emulate. Corporate bucks don't hurt but this one will take years to catch up on. With that type of cash flow, you get the physical plant required to run a top flight organization. We've run on the shoe string budget and stayed tight on our budget as much as possible-- which was probably the smartest thing we've done during the growth process. Fans need to grasp that concept and realize we don't have the resources these other guys have reeadily at their disposal.

3) History -- winning a game at Pitt or any of the other accomplishments most of us can rattle off from memory may be pretty **** great but they pale in comparison to the big guys. It will take dozens of wins against top twenty five teams and final rankings in the top twenty five before we can start to get respected as a program. While it is humorous to certain extent to hear other fans make fun of our team ("who have you beaten?" etc) and ignore the rapid ascension at the same time, it is not exactly that far fetched to say our program is very much wet behind the ears.

4) Improved Opportunists -- there are so many more avenues that USF can expand upon that will push this program even faster (marketing, media relations, fan relations, corporate partnering, etc). I think we do what we can with the limited resources-- see number 2 for the main limiting factor here. It's a viscious cycle -- takes money/resources to make money. Perhaps we've maxed out in some areas but others we have let slide where the bang for the buck was justified.

5) Tampa Area support - This is a big football town with plenty of support available beyond what the Bucs can cover. WE aren't the NFL, but we are football and (despite last year) competitive/fun to watch as well. We need to get the community excited about our program. With any luck, the Big East teams will generate some good interest. Fan friendly approaches -- parking, tail gating, concessions, seating, getting the word out -- the game day experience -- could use some improvement.

For the die hards--- you know and agree to a certain extent when it comes to these factors. But being realistic about the expectations of where the program is heading and how fast USF Athletics are getting us there takes plenty of patience and one other item -- knowing the concept of diminishing returns. IMO, the closer we get to the top of the mountain, the effort has to double to move half as far as the last move.

OK-- off the soap box-- slam away.

[WoolyBully]

There's nothing to slam.

Thang is...it's all true.  It's an accurate assessment of where the program is and where it needs to be. The watered-down Big East was the best shot for USF. Threre was never going to be an SEC or ACC option available to us.

I think one of the most difficult things there is - for some people - is managing their expectations. We are all Bulls fans, but there comes a point where you simply have to call a spade a spade. This is still a very young program. There are still decades of growth involved before, perhaps if,  the "Big Three" become the "Big Four".  

The thing I find most disheartening is the slow growth of season ticket sales given the volume of alumni in the area. This will obviously change as the years go by, and we have more and more alumni associated with the football program, but I am still surprised that it isn't much larger already.  

[ChiTownBull]

The thing I find most disheartening is the slow growth of season ticket sales given the volume of alumni in the area. This will obviously change as the years go by, and we have more and more alumni associated with the football program, but I am still surprised that it isn't much larger already.  

It does not surprise me as when I attended USF 91 - 96 I always saw students wearing other universities apparel. I think the mentality will change but like everything else it will take time.

I also believe that the Tampa area has a bunch of fair weather fans....win and they will come.

[Jim Johnson]

Mike, I don't think anyone has any real reason to slam what you have written.

The proverbial nail has been hit on the head.

You have presented the classic struggle over money.  Right now, the major efforts have been concentrated on coporate giving.  That means a lot of the marketing effort has been geared towards the larger corporations.  The casual fan base isn't big enough, yet, to warrant the kind of marketing effort many on this board have demanded.

To speak to Wooly's comments about the lack of season ticket holders among the large alumni population -- you have a valid point.  90,000+ alumni live in the immediate Tampa Bay area.  However, except for a small percentage of them, most of them attended USF prior to the inception of the football program.  Moreover, if they grew up watching college football - then they are fans of other schools.  (I am a transplanted New Yorker.  Sure, I root for the Buccaneers now - but I am a Bills fan at heart and always will be.)  Finally, we need to recognize that even today the average age of a USF student is 26-27 years old.  USF has more students than FSU, but FSU has more credit hours taken than USF - because so many USF studetns take one class per semester because they have a full-time job and a family to support.  This means that when they get the degree, they don't have the affinity for their alma mater as someone who attended from 18-22.

I will say this: winning draws a crowd.  We may not like it as die hard fans. But if USF wins, crowds show up (see Lightning, Devil Rays, Buccaneers).  When USF loses, the crowds have better things to do.  It comes down to the perceived value they get for their entertainment dollar.  We see the prices as cheap - but one ticket to one game can be the same as taking the family of four to a Saturday evening matinee.  The perception of product on the field HAS to be better than the perception of other forms of entertainment for the casual fan base to grow.

One last point here.  Politicians know that the best way to make a good impression on voters is to be everywhere.  That's why they participate in parades, go to community group meetings, show up unannounced at all kinds of events.  The disheartened call it ego or showmanship or pandering to the crowds.  But it works.  So why can't USF do more than their around the horns.  Why can't USF get a bit more pro-active... have CJL go to Storm games and get him on the overhead screen... have Gigi Fernandez in the stands down at the Nasdaq 100 open (formerly the Virginia Slims)... hold ticket drives and info sessions at shopping malls and other large events across the bay area... put a float in the Gasparilla parade... Proactive PR can elevate our image among the bay area... and get people looking at USF football games.

Just my two cents.  Good post Mike.  Good follow-up Wooly.

[Cubanbull]

Winning BIG games and going to Bowls will increase fan support. Those fair weather fans and alumni who were wearing other schools shirt WONT change until USF does something that is comparable and recognizable by the general public.

I saw it happen in Miami were noone cared about UM football in late 70's almost dropped the program with 11,000 fans at games. Then comes in Jim Kelly in 79 they upset Penn St and go to their first bowl in a long time. Fans get more excited start supporting the team, 83 they win national championship and they are nationally known and support continues to increase now you have kids that grew up supporting the Canes that didnt happen in late 70's.

So in 10 years UM went from almost dropping the program to national power. Will USF do the same, who knows? but it will take time and wins.

[NAM37]

This is a great thread guys...

[BullDoug]

Winning cures all.  Season tix buyers will come as long as USF wins in the BE and there is a victory vs a Top 25 team on an annual basis.  5 yrs of D1AA and 3 years of D!A w/2 years of CUSA has basically been the minor leagues to this point in time.  The Bulls need to scare the crap out of UM this season and beat WVU, Pitt or UL and have a winning record for the season tix count to grow.  4 victories in 2004 and looking bad vs UL, Memphis and Pitt was two BIG steps backwards.  

We as fans must realize USF is No. 4 in the state FBwise.  While that don't sound great it is a hurdle b/c 18 mos. ago that was arguable.  We were 4 or 5.  Plus our Bulls can shut the door of that argument on the field the next two seasons.  BTW, who is No. 4 in TX(TTU, TCU or Baylor), CA(Stanford or CA), AL(TSU) & OH(Some MAC team).  They are hardy powerhouses or have 100,000 fan bases on fall Saturdays but all have been playing FB almost five to ten times longer than our Bulls.

Additionally, we must realize that the Tampa Bay entertainment dollar is spread mighty thin.  There are so many options and  because Tampa's main industry is tourism, IMO, there is not as much entertainm't $ as say Atlanta, Dallas or Detroit.  Why pay for 5 games which includes a D!AA team which you won't go to when you could just walk up and buy a ticket to the games ya wanna see?  Not to mention the conference game vs UC that isn't exactly a game to make the average CF fan say to himself, "Now that's gonna be a real barn burner."  See the point.

Our Bulls have an opportunity to be No. 3 in FL.  That's beating FL twice in the Swamp.  It's the only way to get the MFN gator t-shirts off the backs of kids (with no parental alumni connections) and put Bull shirts on them.  Splitting that series would put us at a half step back but sweeping that series would get the Gators in RJS for a rematch which would be huge.  They don't wanna play Miami but maybe visiting Tampa annually would be a good thing for them.  It definitely would be good for our Bulls as long as they are competitive.

[Unintelligibull]

Coach Leavitt, Doug Woolard and company are doing it the right way. Taking the right steps at the right time. The new fitness facility is a great addition. Tradition takes time. Improvement in all sports programs helps speed up the process. This is clearly happening.

The one issue that all big city college football teams face is establishing a large local fan base. With the exception of UCLA and USC, most other big cities (including Miami) have a tough time filling the stands for college football. UF and FSU can fill it because they're the only game in town and there isn't much else to do in those small cities. Heck, the Dolphins can't sell out.

We have to accept the fact (as does UM) that the stands won't always be packed.

That doesn't mean we won't gain national attention and have a top rated team.

Leavitt has laid the foundation for that and it will be sooner than later.

[sdgukhsdgl]

It does not surprise me as when I attended USF 91 - 96 I always saw students wearing other universities apparel. I think the mentality will change but like everything else it will take time.

I also believe that the Tampa area has a bunch of fair weather fans....win and they will come.

just wanted to address the student issue... there is defenitely a lot more USF gear around campus now than there has been in the past.  I have seen a significant change from when i first started here 4 yrs ago.  There are still the UF, FSU, UM supporters, but they are not as common and they dont outnumber the USF supporters anymore

[Apis Bull]

just wanted to address the student issue... there is defenitely a lot more USF gear around campus now than there has been in the past.  I have seen a significant change from when i first started here 4 yrs ago.  There are still the UF, FSU, UM supporters, but they are not as common and they dont outnumber the USF supporters anymore

Just to let you guys know.  Here at USC (South Carolina) kids wear gear from other schools also.  You'll always have those types.