Have we (USF) fallen asleep at the wheel?

[USF c/o 2010]

I have always seen us as the third strongest (academically) university in Florida -behind UF and FSU. However, today's post does not concern UF or FSU, it concerns UCF. Over the previous years, we have been ranked lower than them in various rankings such as the Best Value or Princeton Review rankings. Notably, this past September, we were ranked lower than UCF in the new Princeton Review ranking and just today, the best value universities in FL were released (tuition paid per academic quality). UF ranked #2, FSU # 20-something, UCF #33, no other schools made the list.

We can argue that football rankings are subjective but academic rankings look at hard numbers among other things. What are we not doing that UCF is doing? Is having an Alzheimer's clinic, Cancer hospital, Center for Global Sustainability,etc. not enough? Or are we just being overlooked?

Has USF fallen asleep at the wheel?

[Oldsmobull]

USF was ranked 55th in the just released Kiplinger report for best value public universities in United States for instate students--not to shabby.  Rankings reports like Kiplingers are subjective, at least USF is recognized in top 100 nationally.  Other Florida public universities ranked for instate students by Kiplinger include:  UF-2; New College-11; FSU-20; UCF-33; USF-55; FIU-97. 

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/

[Bullpride08]

USF was ranked 55th in the just released Kiplinger report for best value public universities in United States for instate students--not to shabby.  Rankings reports like Kiplingers are subjective, at least USF is recognized in top 100 nationally.  Other Florida public universities ranked for instate students by Kiplinger include:  UF-2; New College-11; FSU-20; UCF-33; USF-55; FIU-97. 

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/

But this only personifies what the other poster was saying as UCF is ranked ahead of us here too, and by a substantial margin.

And yet we continue giving Genshaft raises, major ones at that, but by all measuring sticks UCF is surpassing USF in virtually all areas of academic and athletics under her watch.  If you're going to be measured then it should be by the progress we make compared to our peers and those with which we hope to aspire too.  Based on those measurements UCF has at least made up massive ground on us under Genshaft, while our growth seems to be in smaller increments, and UF and FSU appear to have moved so far ahead it's nearly unobtainable.

We are measuring our successes by abstract rulers like dollars in for research, and our ability to submit an AAU application-- we're 100 years from being accepted, let alone allowed to apply.  We were turned down because our numbers in class size, faculty per student, etc....were getting worse.  I worry that Judy enjoys the title more than the job.  Many on the faculty side say she refuses to listen, and it has shown in our diminishing results, and ditto for the athletic side.  At this rate we're going to be seeing FAU, and FIU rapidly ascending to our level...unless we step up our game and move to a higher plateau soon.

[USF c/o 2010]

Bullpride08 took the words right out of my mouth.

Look, its great that we are in the Best Value ranking, however, there is still a problem. First, USF is far ahead of UCF in the programs we offer: The Byrd Alzheimer's Institute, Shriner's Children Hospital, Moffitt Cancer Hospital, Center for Global Sustainability, College of Marine Sciences, future College of Pharmacy, future College of Dentistry, etc. These are all programs and departments that UCF does not have. For us to have these programs AND to be "One of Florida's Top Three Research Universities" AND one of Florida's three Flagship Universities; something is grossly wrong if UCF is ranked ahead of us in any academic category.

Consistently UCF is ranked ahead of us in every category. It used to be that they were ahead in just engineering, despite the fact that our three (soon to be four) engineering buildings provided a layout for what USF engineering can achieve. Only UF, FAMU-FSU and UCF engineering is ranked in Florida. Then, we were always supposed to be ahead (which thankfully we still are) in the health and medical fields. UCF is all about the new and their brand-new College of Medicine is state of the art and will surely compete with us.

Just like Bullpride08 perfectly stated, soon, UCF won’t be our problem, it will be FIU and FAU.  UF students already consider UCF the second best option after UF. And its true, FSU and especially UF are light years ahead of us. We need the pharmacy school here on main campus; not Lakeland. We need the College of Dentistry, and we need a College of Law.  When we were denied from Phi Beta Kappa they cited our class sizes and our graduation rate. To fix those and all of our problems, the following must be addressed:

1. UCF has more students than us, 50,000, they are #1 in Florida in terms of enrollment yet they somehow are able to manage their class sizes. USF NEEDS MORE CLASSROOM/ACADEMIC BUILDINGS! I noticed that there is a whole corner of campus where we have classroom buildings (extending from Ferguson Hall (COBA) to the Social Science building, then up to the science quad in the front of the school, and that’s it. With all the land we have spread out, we need more buildings for classrooms. We should copy UF and build “halls†ie. Donovan Hall, Gibson Hall, etc.; basically, copies of Cooper Hall that will provide the academic buildings we need.

2. We need to copy the new policy that the science majors implemented around last year, university-wide. If you get 3 D’s or F’s in your major, you must change majors! Sorry to sound harsh but if you have to retake Organic I ( I understand its excruciatingly difficult) more than 3 times just to get above a D+ then maybe that major is not meant for you…it will only get harder after that. We have bright students coming in, our freshman GPA for the past two entering classes was above a 3.8, however, they are struggling big-time once they are inside. I remember reading in the Oracle once that people were taking classes like Bio I eight times! How’s that for helping our graduation rate? Or we should copy UF’s policy where they sort of force you to graduate on time. It will only help us in the long run.

3. The commuter image has to go! No more are the days where people come to USF just because its close to home. We need to recruit people that ACTUALLY want to come here. When I was at USF, I loved meeting people from outside Florida because it showed they made a commitment to come here.

4. The main issue that I see that can be addressed is how the university is marketed. The “Unstoppable Campaigns†that President Genshaft has created are remarkable. They expose the progress of the university and allow Alumni to donate to USF. The only problem is they are geared for only Alumni. Alumni already know they love USF (they went there!) We need to copy something like FAMU’s president does where FAMU has a similar program, like the USF Unstoppable one, but its geared towards prospective freshman and people not already associated with the university. I have read extensive discussions on college boards (soon-to-be freshman) and the resounding message was that before we started winning big in football, most people never heard of USF! Even today, we are talked about a lot less than UF, FSU and UCF. Our administration just does not do a good job at selling us OUTSIDE of the Tampa Bay area. Everyone thinks we just got established in the early 2000’s because people haven’t heard of us (us as a university, not just a football team).

Take my solutions as you will USF however, I think if you were to listen to these solutions and actually implement them, we will see a dramatic difference in the way the rest of the nation perceives us…

Faithfully yours,

-USF c/o 2010

University of South Florida

Alma Mater Hail to Thee

USF was ranked 55th in the just released Kiplinger report for best value public universities in United States for instate students--not to shabby.  Rankings reports like Kiplingers are subjective, at least USF is recognized in top 100 nationally.  Other Florida public universities ranked for instate students by Kiplinger include:  UF-2; New College-11; FSU-20; UCF-33; USF-55; FIU-97. 

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/

But this only personifies what the other poster was saying as UCF is ranked ahead of us here too, and by a substantial margin.

And yet we continue giving Genshaft raises, major ones at that, but by all measuring sticks UCF is surpassing USF in virtually all areas of academic and athletics under her watch.  If you're going to be measured then it should be by the progress we make compared to our peers and those with which we hope to aspire too.  Based on those measurements UCF has at least made up massive ground on us under Genshaft, while our growth seems to be in smaller increments, and UF and FSU appear to have moved so far ahead it's nearly unobtainable.

We are measuring our successes by abstract rulers like dollars in for research, and our ability to submit an AAU application-- we're 100 years from being accepted, let alone allowed to apply.  We were turned down because our numbers in class size, faculty per student, etc....were getting worse.  I worry that Judy enjoys the title more than the job.  Many on the faculty side say she refuses to listen, and it has shown in our diminishing results, and ditto for the athletic side.  At this rate we're going to be seeing FAU, and FIU rapidly ascending to our level...unless we step up our game and move to a higher plateau soon.

[Tampabull99]

Bullpride08 took the words right out of my mouth.

Look, its great that we are in the Best Value ranking, however, there is still a problem. First, USF is far ahead of UCF in the programs we offer: The Byrd Alzheimer's Institute, Shriner's Children Hospital, Moffitt Cancer Hospital, Center for Global Sustainability, College of Marine Sciences, future College of Pharmacy, future College of Dentistry, etc. These are all programs and departments that UCF does not have. For us to have these programs AND to be "One of Florida's Top Three Research Universities" AND one of Florida's three Flagship Universities; something is grossly wrong if UCF is ranked ahead of us in any academic category.

Great point!  While undergrad academics, athletics, and the feel of our campus are important; let's not forget that we are first and foremost a research university.  And that's the real standard by which universities are judged.  People can quote all the magazine and internet rankings they want but when it comes to the most important yardstick to compare universties of our type (large public universities), UCF isn't even close to USF. UCF does $122 million in research per year and they frankly don't have the research infrastructure to substantially increase that whereas USF, with the research institutes listed above, is three times that has the organizational infrastructure to challenge UF for research dollars (we already do more than FSU).

So I say let UCF cater to undergrads and be a diploma factory with their shiny athletic facilities and near-campus retail strips.  We are a COMPLETE university that serves undergrads and has good athletics in addition to being a powerhouse research university.

[USF c/o 2010]

This is so true Tampabull99! I never thought of it this way.

UCF is in all these rankings but that is absolutely correct, these rankings are geared toward a university's undergraduate poppulation and not representative of a universityt as a whole. With thaqt said, we are winning in every category. We are #2 in Florida and only behind UF! It moves me every time I come back to campus and see development. It means we continue to keep moving USF forward.

Just right now we have the new Interdisciplinary Sciences Research and Teaching Facility which will empower the natural sciences and interdisciplinary scientific research at USF. The new Music Building which provides state-of-the-art amenities. And finally, our fourth dining hall! Back when I came to USF there were only two dining halls...who would have ever imagined that we would have four?

Forget UF, In my eyes, USF has the capacity to become the next UPenn in the coming years. FSU is limited in land (that's why they share their COEngineering with FAMU) and can not grow that much more. FIU does not stand a chance, we will close the gap between us and UF soon as we are similar in land size and can thus enhance our beloved USF campus with similar facilities that UF has. Although we are neck-and-neck right now with UCF (undergrad purposes) we will overpower them with a College of Pharamacy (on the Tampa campus please, a College of Dentistry and hopefully a College of Law!

USF = The Greatest University In The Nation!

[glow=red,2,300]The University of South Florida[/glow]Alma Mater Hail to Thee

Bullpride08 took the words right out of my mouth.

Look, its great that we are in the Best Value ranking, however, there is still a problem. First, USF is far ahead of UCF in the programs we offer: The Byrd Alzheimer's Institute, Shriner's Children Hospital, Moffitt Cancer Hospital, Center for Global Sustainability, College of Marine Sciences, future College of Pharmacy, future College of Dentistry, etc. These are all programs and departments that UCF does not have. For us to have these programs AND to be "One of Florida's Top Three Research Universities" AND one of Florida's three Flagship Universities; something is grossly wrong if UCF is ranked ahead of us in any academic category.

Great point!  While undergrad academics, athletics, and the feel of our campus are important; let's not forget that we are first and foremost a research university.  And that's the real standard by which universities are judged.  People can quote all the magazine and internet rankings they want but when it comes to the most important yardstick to compare universties of our type (large public universities), UCF isn't even close to USF. UCF does $122 million in research per year and they frankly don't have the research infrastructure to substantially increase that whereas USF, with the research institutes listed above, is three times that has the organizational infrastructure to challenge UF for research dollars (we already do more than FSU).

So I say let UCF cater to undergrads and be a diploma factory with their shiny athletic facilities and near-campus retail strips.  We are a COMPLETE university that serves undergrads and has good athletics in addition to being a powerhouse research university.

[813knight]

Just had to make one comment than I'll let you guys be... Have you looked at the freshmen profile of both schools lately? Calling UCF a diploma mill makes no sense coming from USF, from Princeton yes, just had to respond to that.  UCF has a new medical school, simulation work with the military, Lockheed, NASA, etc so it's not like nothing is going past undergrad.

 UF students already consider UCF the second best option after UF.

If you take a current poll of recent quality high school students and their parents, UCF is very popular. Before most Tampa Bay students were either going to UF, FSU, or USF but that has changed. There are A LOT of Tampa Bay students going to UCF now, during holiday breaks you'll see a bunch of UCF shirts in the gyms, malls, etc. And by most sources recently it's the 2nd hardest public school to get into after UF in the State of Florida so easy entrance is not the reason. We must be doing something right. Have a nice day 

[Donno]

we are not HCC and we are not Yale...

as long as we are not in the bottom percentile and we are never going to be in the top percentile, I personally could care less.

As with all schools not Duke, Military Institute or Ivy League etc,  you get out of it what you put into it.

And as most of you have or about to find out an undergraduate degree is not worth that much anymore.

UF, FSU, UCF, UM, Jacksonville...  I don't value one degree over the other when I interview or hire.  Well I am bias against UF but mostly b/c of athletics.  Unfortunately you are probably better off amongst these choices to go to the school with the biggest alumni and better athletics.  It has a lot to do with networking.

[Bull_Gator]

Counting satellite campuses, UCF is the largest school in FL. Size isn't indicative of success, most often the opposite, actually. USF is becoming more selective & therefore a better academic institution

[Oldsmobull]

Miami Dade College is the largest school in Florida, and the nation, with around 170,000 students--about 3 times the size of UCF's student enrollment.

http://www.mdc.edu/main/