Is Jim Hickey the problem?

[CousinRicky]

It seems to me like the Rays minor league system has produced some pretty good pitchers.  Once they reach the majors, however, they don't seem to continue to develop.  I thought I remembered that the Astros dumped Hickey after screwing up their pitching staff.  Did a quick search and the first article I came across was the one below by Richard Justice.

Does anyone else think it is time to look for a different pitching coach at the major league level?

http://htownsports.blogspot.com/2006/10/jim-hickey-pays-price.html

"Justice seems to think that Hickey, like Gary Gaetti earlier this season, is being made to be the scapegoat for the team's failings this year. Not surprisingly, I tend to disagree. My grandmother could have been the pitching coach for Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, and Roy Oswalt. Those guys have a pretty good idea what they're doing, and thus require little more than a "How are you feeling?" and/or a "Can you sign this for my kid?" from their pitching coach. The other members of the staff, particularly the young starters (Buchholz, Wandy, Hirsh, Albers, etc.) were the players who desperately needed insight and coaching. Seeing as how those guys were inconsistent at best (and I'm being kind here, because they're all relatively young), I don't think you can say Hickey did even a serviceable, much less acceptable, job with them..."

[Matt]

i really dont know where this is coming from?

hickey did an incrediable job last year.  this year things got a little rough but the rays have the 6th best era in the AL.  considering they have had a ton of injuries and have a bullpen full of journeymen. 

if you are basing this off of david price then i dont know what to tell you.

price hasnt worked with hickey very long.  i know that shields gives tremendous credit to hickey for getting him to where he is at.

sonnie is and always will be subject to the long ball because his arm slot lets the batters stare at the ball for what looks like an hour.

but garza is pitching well.  hickey has done a nice job with neimann. 

the rays will be fine and i dont see any problem with the rays staff other then the fact that the back of the bullpen is a mess without having a closer.

it doesnt allow guys to get into roles they are comfortable with.  balfour has been a nightmare this year with all his walks.

but to answer your question...i say no.

[Bullpride08]

Great answer and insight Matt, and I completely agree with you on this sentiment.  Hickey has done a good job with what he's had to work with.  For the past two years he's been saddled with a slightly rag-tag bunch in the bullpen and been able to get the extra mileage out of those guys despite quite a few having obvious limitations in their games.  If there is any blame to be given then it's to upper management for deciding not to go with an extra ace in the bullpen in lieu of picking up a guy like say Matt Joyce, or Pat Burrell.  Arguments can be made either way to those trades and/or signings that maybe we had enough bat strength to use our precious dollars for a closer, or trade bait like Jackson for a closer....but I like what they did.  The competent closers that were available in the off-season would have costed to much in dollars or trades.  In the end we've got viable strong bats like Joyce and Burrell to extend our offensive and defensive play further.

People expect us to have a bunch of 20 game winning starters from 1 to 5, but that's never the case.  Even the best teams in the recent era usually have starters in the 3-5 spots struggle at times.  I think David Price is coming along very nicely, people expect him to come out and just dominate, but you can see much of what Price's problems are are his own...stuff Hickey will work on, for example stop trying to throw harder to get a batter out...pick your spots, trust your defense.  Price will come around but remember he's still very young and few pitchers get called up as soon as Price has been called.  What he's done with Neiman, Shields, Garza has been fantastic.  Shields problem, isn't him at all, it's the fact he's our #1 pitcher and is usually battling the opposition's ace.  He gets minimal run support, one of the lowest in the league right now, so his record isn't commensurate for a guy that has a 3.40 ERA- he should be something closer to having 8-9 wins right now if he had the proper run support.  THe run support issue hasn't been helped with all the injuries either.

Sonnasteine will always battle because of what Matt says and because he lacks over-powering stuff.  His pitching relies on pinpoint location, patience, and making batters put the ball in play and relying on his defense.  Unfortunately for a guy like Sonny if he's even a little bit off one day it means he's going to have a tough outing.  That's why he's in the 4 to 5 slot and not the 1-3, it's why he's won 5 games with a 5 somethin ERA, because at least he's usually battling one of the opposition's weaker pitchers. 

That's baseball in a nutshell, match-ups and timing.  We don't have one absolutely dominant pitcher, but we do have five strudy guys that can get us wins, pitch deep, and keep games close enough for the batters to do the rest.  As for Kazmir, he's still a 25 year old kid that has won 50 games, and has some absolutely nasty stuff when his head is in the game.  He's won at least 10 games 4 straight years, and has been steady and spectacular at times.  Pitching coaches like Hickey can only do so much and then the kids like Kaz need to take care of the rest...

Hickey is very solid, and I think he's done a great job with what he has to work with.  Remember when Minnesota sent Garza to us the label on him was he was a headcase.  Early last season he was living up to that label, but Hickey was able to settle him down, work on his mechanics, and game management (trusting his stuff and the game being called).  What happened was Matt turned out to have a fantastic finish to the season.  Even the greatest pitching coach ever would have his work cut out for him with our bullpen, and yet he still gets the most out of it.  He only has one real flame thrower in the bunch and that's an Aussie who struggles with control and only has one pitch- a fast ball with little movement at times. 

[Matt]

by the way...the rays bullpen has the 3rd best ERA in the AL.

which considering the pitchers in that pen and the injuries...that is nothing short of remarkable.

so cousin ricky...i gotta think you are way off base here and maybe listening to steve duemig too much or something.

pitching staff is fine.  maybe a little help in the end of games and hopefully sonnie will bounce back to get his era under 5. 

but i do think Kaz will be back strong.  shields is just running thru some bad luck...both in matchups, run support, and some seeing eye singles.

david price will relax eventually. 

[CousinRicky]

See page page 4 of today's St. Pete Times.  Kaz is going to see a former pitching coach.  Kaz and Edwin Jackson are the guys that I had in mind when I wrote this.  Wasn't specific enough I guess.  I'm hoping Price will be fine.  And I'm still not sold on the progress being made by Sonny and Shields.  Not saying they are horrible pitchers, but I don't see them improving.

[Matt]

See page page 4 of today's St. Pete Times.  Kaz is going to see a former pitching coach.  Kaz and Edwin Jackson are the guys that I had in mind when I wrote this.  Wasn't specific enough I guess.  I'm hoping Price will be fine.  And I'm still not sold on the progress being made by Sonny and Shields.  Not saying they are horrible pitchers, but I don't see them improving.

edwin jackson?  are you serious?  the dodgers pretty much gave up on this guy cause they thought he would never turn it around.

jackson was borderline terrible under butcher.  in 07 jackson's era under butcher was 5.76.  after one season working with hickey it went down to 4.42. 

as for kazmir...

here are some quotes from the article

"Scott has a long-standing relationship with Rick and he wanted to reach out to him regarding the biomechanics study we conducted," executive VP Andrew Friedman said.

Kazmir said his consultation with Peterson, who is currently a freelance instructor, is not an indication of anything lacking in his relationship with Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey or their staff.

"Nothing negative at all," Kazmir said. "And it's not like I was going behind anybody's back; everyone was on the same page."

Kazmir said he is just trying to do everything he can to get back to pitching well for the Rays: "That's what we're all trying to do."

arent you one of the guys who gets all upset with brett for reading too much into things and trying to start fires?  sounds like that is what you are trying to do here.

[CousinRicky]

See page page 4 of today's St. Pete Times.  Kaz is going to see a former pitching coach.  Kaz and Edwin Jackson are the guys that I had in mind when I wrote this.  Wasn't specific enough I guess.  I'm hoping Price will be fine.  And I'm still not sold on the progress being made by Sonny and Shields.  Not saying they are horrible pitchers, but I don't see them improving.

edwin jackson?  are you serious?  the dodgers pretty much gave up on this guy cause they thought he would never turn it around.

jackson was borderline terrible under butcher.  in 07 jackson's era under butcher was 5.76.  after one season working with hickey it went down to 4.42. 

as for kazmir...

here are some quotes from the article

"Scott has a long-standing relationship with Rick and he wanted to reach out to him regarding the biomechanics study we conducted," executive VP Andrew Friedman said.

Kazmir said his consultation with Peterson, who is currently a freelance instructor, is not an indication of anything lacking in his relationship with Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey or their staff.

"Nothing negative at all," Kazmir said. "And it's not like I was going behind anybody's back; everyone was on the same page."

Kazmir said he is just trying to do everything he can to get back to pitching well for the Rays: "That's what we're all trying to do."

arent you one of the guys who gets all upset with brett for reading too much into things and trying to start fires?  sounds like that is what you are trying to do here.

First of all, I'm not trying to start fires, it was just something that crossed my mind a few days ago.  And when it crossed my mind I remember him leaving Houston under not so great conditions.  He did.  Isn't the purpose of bulletin boards to throw out ideas?

Also, what do you expect Kaz to say, "My pitching coach sucks and I'm going to my former coach because I think he's better" ?

As for Jackson, he left the Dodgers as a kid, came here and did close to nothing, leaves here and is 3rd or 4th in the same league in ERA.  Just sayin...

Plus, I don't comment on Brett usually.  Last time I did I just claimed that he didn't have all the facts when he wrote that piece about USF treating Khyri Thornton unfairly.  I don't read the Trib or Brett's blogs.

[Matt]

well i dont think jim hickey is the problem.

you cite his leaving the astros and your main reason for thinking he is.

coaches almost ALWAYS leave on not so great conditions.

Joe Torre was fired by the St Louis Cardinals in 1995.  Is Joe Torre a bad manager?

Hickey has done a great job.

[CousinRicky]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  And I'm not saying he IS a problem.  Just wondering if he might be. 

[Matt]

very true.  and my opinion is that he isnt the problem.