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Obstruction rule from MLB

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Bull-by-Marriage Toro Magnifico

Bull-by-Marriage

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I have provided a link to what I could find is the closest to the Rundown incident yesterday. It appears that there is a possiblity for judgement  by the umpire. Someone my find one better, but this is waht I found. By the way they just showed the replay and I am not even sure that Aybar "touched" AJ's elbow. Look at rule 7.06

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/07_the_runner.pdf

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Matt Toro Magnifico

Matt

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i know its a judgment call.  s bien likes to type novels so people think he is correct but trust me....it is a JUDGMENT call on who initated contact.  otherwise...why wouldnt a runner just tackle a fielder to get out of a run down?

could Aybar maybe dont a little better of a job...yea.  but its still a bad call. 

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Bullpride08 Toro Magnifico

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i know its a judgment call.  s bien likes to type novels so people think he is correct but trust me....it is a JUDGMENT call on who initated contact.  otherwise...why wouldnt a runner just tackle a fielder to get out of a run down?

could Aybar maybe dont a little better of a job...yea.  but its still a bad call. 

A runner cannot be touched- if he is touched by any baseball league from pee-wee to major league he must be advanced his base in question.  The only judgement call is whether AJ initiated and was it was significant enough to be called obstruction.  IF AJ was touched by Aybar then he must get advanced the base.  The judgement call is not whether to advance him or not because that is a RULE, and RULES ARE RULES, what was a judgement call was whether AJ initiated contact enough for it to be called obstruction, but it was so subtle that AJ got away with it.

In this instance I personally believe it was to subtle for the Rays to get that call.  Smart play by AJ, move on.

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Matt Toro Magnifico

Matt

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yea but bien...i dont know if you just comprehend well or not...but from the very START of ths discussion my point was that it is a judgment call on WHO CAUSED THE CONTACT.  not a judgment call on what happens after contact is made.  you are trying to argue a completely different point.

it was very clear that AJ CAUSED that contact.

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Bull-by-Marriage Toro Magnifico

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i know its a judgment call.  s bien likes to type novels so people think he is correct but trust me....it is a JUDGMENT call on who initated contact.  otherwise...why wouldnt a runner just tackle a fielder to get out of a run down?

could Aybar maybe dont a little better of a job...yea.  but its still a bad call. 

A runner cannot be touched- if he is touched by any baseball league from pee-wee to major league he must be advanced his base in question.  The only judgement call is whether AJ initiated and was it was significant enough to be called obstruction.  IF AJ was touched by Aybar then he must get advanced the base.  The judgement call is not whether to advance him or not because that is a RULE, and RULES ARE RULES, what was a judgement call was whether AJ initiated contact enough for it to be called obstruction, but it was so subtle that AJ got away with it.

In this instance I personally believe it was to subtle for the Rays to get that call.  Smart play by AJ, move on.

If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter-runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction.

Is it your contention that Aybar knocked him down? Or was he falling before he reached out in an attempt to touch Aybar? That is a judgement call. IMO he was falling prior to trying to touch Aybar therefore he could not have reached the base even if there has been no obstruction. Rules are rules, you are quite correct, and the rulw that I linked and highlited here.

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Matt Toro Magnifico

Matt

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its kinda like the hit batter rule.  there is no mistaken that if a batter is hit by a pitch he gets to go to first base.  the batter doesnt have to move out of the way of the pitch, however, if in the umps JUDGMENT the batter CREATES the contact with the pitch then he is not awarded first base.

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Bullpride08 Toro Magnifico

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yea but bien...i dont know if you just comprehend well or not...but from the very START of ths discussion my point was that it is a judgment call on WHO CAUSED THE CONTACT.  not a judgment call on what happens after contact is made.  you are trying to argue a completely different point.

it was very clear that AJ CAUSED that contact.

I comprehend, but Matt you don't read well maybe.  The initiation has nothing to do with it, because you are not allowed to touch, impede, or obstruct a runner.  THERE IS NO GRAY AREA IN THAT RULE.

AJ causing the contact doesn't matter.  Aybar touched AJ, so by rule AJ is allowed to advance to his next base.  AJ initiated contact, but that doesn't matter because you are not allowed to touch a batter.  In fact, no where in the rules does it ever mention who initiated contact as a stipulation, just contact/obstruction.  IF a call is to made in that situation then the ump made the right call.  PERIOD!  There really is not another call he can make in that situation. 

An argument can be made, and where i agree with you, that a judgement call could be made that the ump should make a 'no call' in that situation because it seems AJ initiated the contact.  I agree with that theory, HOWEVER AJ was screaming bloody murder 'interference, interference'...he was going nuts to force the ump to make a decision.  In a split second FROM A RAYS PERSPECTIVE, he made the wrong call BY MAKING A CALL, but if he had made a no call in that situation, and Ozzie Guillen came out to dispute, then White Sox fans would be up in arms after reviewing the tape.  Remember they're in a playoff race too, a lot more heated than ours is right now.  This is sematics one side was not going to be happy with the verdict, but AJ's the smart one.

Tip your hat to AJ P, he's a jack-ass, but a smart jack-ass.  He forced the ump to make that call, and by the rules the ump is allowed to make that call. 

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Triple B Toro Magnifico

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Posted

yea but bien...i dont know if you just comprehend well or not...but from the very START of ths discussion my point was that it is a judgment call on WHO CAUSED THE CONTACT.  not a judgment call on what happens after contact is made.  you are trying to argue a completely different point.

it was very clear that AJ CAUSED that contact.

I comprehend, but Matt you don't read well maybe.  The initiation has nothing to do with it, because you are not allowed to touch, impede, or obstruct a runner.  THERE IS NO GRAY AREA IN THAT RULE.

Just exactly which Rule deals with not being allowed to touch a runner, no matter who intiates?

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Bullshiznitz Grand Bull

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Posted

Just to continue to fuel the fire....this is the amount of contact we are talking about.....

2797098190_a920de0db4.jpg

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Apis Bull Toro Magnifico

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Posted

Technically Aybar didn't touch the runner, AJ touched him.

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