clarett lost his case...

[BullDoug]

SBien

I can agree to disagree.  Hope you can too.  This is age discrimnation.  Period.  Becoming a lawyer requires passing a test, the Bar.  Is there a requirem't to take the Bar or do you just need the law school degree to take it.  Smazza?  Becoming a professional engineer requires passing 2 tests, 4 yrs of engineering experience and an engineering degree from ABEKA approved program.  The degree part can be circumvented w/field experience or an approved foriegn degree.  NFL is not the same thing.  It does not require a degree or a certain level of education to play.  You are talking apples & oranges here.

BTW I never said that this was a good thing but if a HS'r wants to take a chance on the draft they should be allowed.  There are a good number of late round MLB draftees that take the $50K bonus and $35K annual salary to ride a bus to reach a dream.  There will be some kids disappointed that their dream never comes to fruition.  See NBA HS draftees and even early college draftees who didn't get drafted.

Its a gamble and there won't be tons of the NFL getting left behind b/c not many teams will gamble on the HSr in the first 4 rounds.  I just believe if an 18 yr young man/woman  can decide w/free will to join the arm forces and then die in a foriegn country for the freedom of another country b/c our country/President deems it a necessity to USA national security, a 19 yr who has displayed skills necessary to compete in the NFL should be allowed.  That's just how I feel about it.

Another thing.  A 14 yr old is not an adult and legally is not responsible for the determination of what is good or bad or dangerous for themselves.  The teens parents are.  An 16 yr can't have a job if the parents forbid it.  This does not hold true for an 19 yr old.

I'm kinda perplexed that so many are okay with discriminating on age basis.  Why not use race, religion and sexual orientation as requirements for employm't?  Oh yea that's already been outlawed too.  :

[Guest S.  Bien]

SBien

I can agree to disagree.  Hope you can too.  This is age discrimnation.  Period.  Becoming a lawyer requires passing a test, the Bar.  Is there a requirem't to take the Bar or do you just need the law school degree to take it.  Smazza?  Becoming a professional engineer requires passing 2 tests, 4 yrs of engineering experience and an engineering degree from ABEKA approved program.  The degree part can be circumvented w/field experience or an approved foriegn degree.  NFL is not the same thing.  It does not require a degree or a certain level of education to play.  You are talking apples & oranges here.

BTW I never said that this was a good thing but if a HS'r wants to take a chance on the draft they should be allowed.  There are a good number of late round MLB draftees that take the $50K bonus and $35K annual salary to ride a bus to reach a dream.  There will be some kids disappointed that their dream never comes to fruition.  See NBA HS draftees and even early college draftees who didn't get drafted.

Its a gamble and there won't be tons of the NFL getting left behind b/c not many teams will gamble on the HSr in the first 4 rounds.  I just believe if an 18 yr young man can die in foriegn countries for the freedom of another country b/c our country/President deems it a necessity to USA national security, a 19 yr who has displayed skills necessary to compete in the NFL should be allowed.  That's just how I feel about it.

Another thing.  A 14 yr old is not an adult and legally is not responsible for the determination of what is good or bad or dangerous for themselves.  The teens parents are.  An 16 yr can't have a job if the parents forbid it.  This does not hold true for an 19 yr old.

I'm kinda perplexed that so many are okay with discriminating on age basis.  Why not use race, religion and sexual orientation as requirements for employm't?  Oh yea that's already been outlawed too.  :

We can agree to disagree but you have no proof of  discrimination, and even the higher courts disagree with you.  You are basing your opinion on feeling, and in the end no one is discriminating they are forming a profile on how they want their employee's to be qualified, just like lawyers do with a Bar.  Nothing more.  If lawyers felt people could practice law without degrees they would acquiesce, ditto for every other profession, just like the NFL and their employees.

My opinion now believes this is good for Clarett, and all other young guys that think they can carry a rock, and some stupid agent forces them to believe they are better than they are, because the NFL doesn't guarantee contracts like other professions so it behooves a football player to be semi-equiped to handle the real world.  That's my opinion, and where we differ.  The higher courts have upheld the actual facts.

[Guest S.  Bien]

by the way you cite baseball, and basketball, and again I mention they are different.  In baseball a kid can sign a contract and at least 60% must be guaranteed, in the NFL zero is guaranteed.  A player can wallow in the minors for twenty years because baseball needs those players, and is willing to pay.  Its like being in FL with the right to work clause.  NFL can fire you and not look back, baseball cannot.  

[No_Willie_Jokes_Yet]

Ok, I've failed to read every post but is this really an age discrimination issue or an experience issue?

If I required 2 years of work experience beyond high school before I employed someone would that open me up to lawsuits?

Now what if I said you must have 3 years of life experience beyond high school? Same thing really.

[CyberBull]

If you need any other reason why the NFL should not be forced to change it's age restrictions, just look at the NBA.

Tonight the pistons and pacers combined for a 50 point first half. This is a direct result of the influx of young players in the league who have no idea how to play the game.

As a fan of both professional sports I don't know that I would be willing to pay top dollar to watch the NFL equivalent of the NBA. This is what is going to happen if they open the door to underclassman.

BTW, the NHL and MLB don't compare b/c players can be drafted and placed in a minor league system to develop their skills. That will never happen in football and basketball so there is no sens making the comparisons between these sports.

[Apis Bull]

Well dammit I want to be a lawyer, but there's those pesky bar exams, and the little fact of passing law school.  Organizations can decide what criteria to admit individuals in their field.  If Mo Clarett wants to make a living no one is stopping him from walking out there and becoming gainfully employed.

The fact I am presenting is in the NFL, unlike ANY of the other sports that people cite, does not guarantee its salaries.  Therefore, the risk is substantial, and the NFL prefers to insure these players are physically, and mentally prepared to play this sport.  If not, we would have a ton of high school kids running around without degrees, ineligible to return to college, and crying the blues about how the NFL treated them.  Obviously the NFL teams wanted this measure because they pursued it so ardently.  This wasn't an NFL office crusade, it was a collective decision by the league.  

Not to worry I am sure someone will draft Clarett next year in the 5th or 6th round.  He will get a nice $30k signing bonus and $120k salary.  

Additionally, this was agreed to by the union and to play in the NFL, you must be a member of the union.

[BULLheaded]

you are an adult at 18 but by law you are not old enough to drink until 21. Age discrimination?

Actually I find that law to be more discriminatory then the NFL, truth is that the NFL is not a public corporation and is actually private businesses to the owners and I just don't see why as the owner you don't have the right to make whatever hiring decisions you want based on any criteria. Wether it is right or wrong morally that should be someone's choice when it comes to their own property, same argument with Augusta a few years ago.

[Guest S.  Bien]

you are an adult at 18 but by law you are not old enough to drink until 21. Age discrimination?

Actually I find that law to be more discriminatory then the NFL, truth is that the NFL is not a public corporation and is actually private businesses to the owners and I just don't see why as the owner you don't have the right to make whatever hiring decisions you want based on any criteria. Wether it is right or wrong morally that should be someone's choice when it comes to their own property, same argument with Augusta a few years ago.

Precisely!  It's one thing if you are selective but because this is all encompassing then its not discriminatory.  If someone wants to cry age discrimination I just find that ignorant, because age alone should not, and is not a reflection on aptitude or capability.  The NFL and its peers determine the capability, and they've unilaterally agreed this is not good for the sport or the athletes.

If that was the case then this entire country is backwards (well kinda), and we should have 14 year olds suing to drive, 19 year olds suing to drink, etc., etc., etc.

Does this mean that we should have 14 year old felony offenders suing to be tried as adults?  I guess you can't have it both ways.

Hey, by the way, I want my AARP Card today.  I know I am too young, but I feel like I've lived a full life, and they are discriminating against me.  Time to sue.  Depending on what side of the fence your on, but sometimes I am so sick of living in such a litigious society.  Maybe socialism isn't such a bad thing, at least the cost of medical expenses would be lower. :-X

[BullDoug]

because age alone should not, and is not a reflection on aptitude or capability.

Now you are talking.  If a child with a gift of an astronomical IQ can  get the req'd education & pass the req'd test to become a Dr/Lawyer should he be allowed to be a Dr/Lawyer by age 16 (ie Duggie Houzer TV show)?

I do agree the rule is good but I also believe its unfair.  I also believe Maurice Clarrett has displayed the capability to play NFL football which should be the only criteria for any doing a job.  It the NFL wants a criteria test to play in its league then they should develope it.  I have no issues with that but I just think its unfair to arbitrarily set an age.

As for the AARP formly known as the American Association of RETIRED People, that is a private organization.  They should be allowed to set thier own membership criteria but I am sure if they discriminated against persons of less than 50 yrs of age when hiring for gainful employm't there would be issues.

Here's another angle.  The NFL rule is to protect an individual against himself or for himself...right?  Kinda sounds similar to the seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws.  Now why in the heck do we havta buckle up and a m'cyclist doesn't havta wear a helmet?  Explain why one law is okay and the other isn't.

BTW this topic belongs on the Mad Cow.

[BULLheaded]

BullDoug

to me it isn't the age factor but the right to do with your own property as you see fit. There is a big difference between something in the public realm and the private realm. Seat belt laws, drinking laws, hiring proceedures for public corporations all fall into the public realm, in other words they are owned and regulated by the public and therefore the public should be in control. On the contrary private clubs, businesses and even homes are property of particular individuals or groups of individuals and as such it is those individuals rights to run them as they see fit. For some reason people think an owner of a private business should have less rights to that property then an individual's home, what if you only want adults in your own home? What if you only hire one particular ethnic group to handle various jobs around your house? Maybe you are morally wrong in rulling out all plumbers that are under 25 years old but does that mean you shouldn't have the right to make that decision of who you hire to work on your home? Should the government step in and force you to allow someone in your home if you don't want them there EVEN if you keep them out for discriminatory reasons?

So basically I'm not agreeing or disagreeing that the NFLs rule is right or wrong but that I believe that as private property of the NFL owners they have the right to make those rules. Green Bay on the other hand may have some issues