SOS and Computer Polls

[Bull Dozer]

Before this becomes me and you bantering back and forth for like 2 pages im just going to have to agree to disagree becasue its our differences in the view of the game of football that will never let us see eye to eye.  I can tell from most of your posts on this board your are a offensive minded guy that believes a good offense can win you more games than a good defense and im a the polar opposite who believes a great defense can do more for you than a great offense as far as winning games.  This is where i see the difference between the SEC and the BE defensive athletes and team speed.  All the defenses in the SEC have athletes which in a way can limit what an offense can do an put defenses in the postion to make plays more often than a team that lacks defenive speed and atleticisim.  This is why im still not completely sold on UL after that WVU game, and if WVU won i wouldnt be sold on them either.  Both of them lack good defensive athletes (in ULs case a physical front 7 that can stop the run, in WVU's case a team speed in the defensive backfield).  When i look at teams like LSU, UT, UF, AU, Ark, and every other team in the SEC i see team speed everywhere i dont see as many huge game breaking plays against SEC defenses as i do in other conferences like the PAC 10, BE, Big 10 etc because the speed on defense in the SEC is alot better.  If you even look at the USC Ark game in which USC beat a young ark team very badls none of the scores were on big plays and none of the USC players (who have GREAT offensives speed) burned ARK very bad they just moved the ball consistantly.  Yes the SEC has lacked GREAT offenses over the course of the seasons but i feel its because the conference as a whole seems for some reason or another to have their best athletes on the defensive side of the ball while other conferences use the oppsosite formula.  you can argue all you want about the SEC not being that tough and argue a point you cant prove (the they benefit from being ranked high not because they are good football teams) but the facts still say they have 5 teams in the top 16 in the BCS and no other conference has that distinction.  The BCS computers arent supposed to be bias from what ive seen from you in thread talkinga bout UL and WVU so why are they bias when it comes to the SEC?  Just like you tell me you cant have it both ways.    

[windbane]

Before this becomes me and you bantering back and forth for like 2 pages im just going to have to agree to disagree becasue its our differences in the view of the game of football that will never let us see eye to eye.  I can tell from most of your posts on this board your are a offensive minded guy that believes a good offense can win you more games than a good defense and im a the polar opposite who believes a great defense can do more for you than a great offense as far as winning games.  This is where i see the difference between the SEC and the BE defensive athletes and team speed.  All the defenses in the SEC have athletes which in a way can limit what an offense can do an put defenses in the postion to make plays more often than a team that lacks defenive speed and atleticisim.  This is why im still not completely sold on UL after that WVU game, and if WVU won i wouldnt be sold on them either.  Both of them lack good defensive athletes (in ULs case a physical front 7 that can stop the run, in WVU's case a team speed in the defensive backfield).  When i look at teams like LSU, UT, UF, AU, Ark, and every other team in the SEC i see team speed everywhere i dont see as many huge game breaking plays against SEC defenses as i do in other conferences like the PAC 10, BE, Big 10 etc because the speed on defense in the SEC is alot better.  If you even look at the USC Ark game in which USC beat a young ark team very badls none of the scores were on big plays and none of the USC players (who have GREAT offensives speed) burned ARK very bad they just moved the ball consistantly.  Yes the SEC has lacked GREAT offenses over the course of the seasons but i feel its because the conference as a whole seems for some reason or another to have their best athletes on the defensive side of the ball while other conferences use the oppsosite formula.  you can argue all you want about the SEC not being that tough and argue a point you cant prove (the they benefit from being ranked high not because they are good football teams) but the facts still say they have 5 teams in the top 16 in the BCS and no other conference has that distinction.  The BCS computers arent supposed to be bias from what ive seen from you in thread talkinga bout UL and WVU so why are they bias when it comes to the SEC?  Just like you tell me you cant have it both ways.    

I argued Computer polls and SOS not being biased.  two-thirds of the BCS is biased.  I don't agree that the SEC has better athletes all around on defense than other conferences.  I think great defenses can win games.  I think great offenses can win games.  I think teams with both are great all-around teams.  I do not think that the SEC has many teams with great offense and defense.  I think UL and WVU have better offenses than any team in the SEC and most other teams in the nation.  Their defenses might not be quite as good, but it evens out to me when compared to the other best teams in the nation.

The SEC is the best conference this year.  I've never said otherwise.  I do not think they are SO MUCH better.  Preseason rankings are what is keeping Arkansas, undefeated in SEC play and beat AUBURN, out of the top 10 and behind other SEC teams and barely ahead of 2-loss LSU.  Pre-season rankings are keeping Rutgers behind Boise State.  But hey, maybe you think Boise State has a better team.

The ACC has defensive speed, especially Miami and FSU, among others.  The big east has defensive speed including USF.  Cincy especially is built around speed on defense with safeties playing linebacker and linebackers playing defensive linemen.  The big ten is known for some defense as well.  I think the SEC has some great defenses, but a lot of those teams lack an offense the caliber of OSU, Michigan, UL, or WVU (among others).

So, I suppose we will agree to disagree, but I think I resigned myself to that awhile ago, heh.  I'm sorry you got the impression I only like offense.  That is probably from defending UL and WVU so much.  I don't really need to do that anymore.  Most of the nation sees them as really good teams.  Rutgers can play some D as well, btw.  The defense can't score for you every game, though.  Sometimes you have to put your own points up.  I think the Bears learned that last year. The Ravens won with their dominant defense once, and then got rid of their superbowl winning QB that had a ridiculous winning streak because they wanted to score more so they could win it again, which they have yet to do.  I like defense and offense.

[USFDan]

Just for fun:

  CONFERENCE          CENTRAL MEAN    SIMPLE AVERAGE  TEAMS

  1  PAC-10              (A) =  80.85      80.20  (  1)     10

  2  BIG EAST            (A) =  78.00      78.95  (  2)      8

  3  SOUTHEASTERN        (A) =  77.97      78.01  (  3)     12

  4  BIG TEN             (A) =  76.45      77.73  (  4)     11

  5  ATLANTIC COAST      (A) =  75.22      73.73  (  6)     12

  6  BIG 12              (A) =  73.98      74.12  (  5)     12

  7  MOUNTAIN WEST       (A) =  68.00      68.00  (  7)      9

  8  I-A INDEPENDENTS    (A) =  67.02      67.11  (  8)      4

  9  CONFERENCE USA      (A) =  64.62      64.72  ( 10)     12

 10  WESTERN ATHLETIC    (A) =  63.78      64.95  (  9)      9

 11  MID-AMERICAN        (A) =  61.54      61.73  ( 11)     12

 12  GREAT WEST          (AA)=  60.30      59.51  ( 12)      5

 13  ATLANTIC 10         (AA)=  57.50      58.38  ( 13)     12

 14  SUN BELT            (A) =  56.76      57.08  ( 14)      8

 15  GATEWAY             (AA)=  56.51      55.22  ( 15)      8

 16  BIG SKY             (AA)=  53.27      53.48  ( 16)      9

 17  IVY LEAGUE          (AA)=  49.63      49.50  ( 18)      8

 18  SOUTHERN            (AA)=  49.50      50.26  ( 17)      8

 19  BIG SOUTH           (AA)=  46.48      45.66  ( 19)      5

 20  SOUTHLAND           (AA)=  43.58      43.11  ( 20)      7

 21  PATRIOT LEAGUE      (AA)=  42.99      42.63  ( 21)      7

 22  OHIO VALLEY         (AA)=  41.98      42.30  ( 22)      9

 23  MID-EASTERN         (AA)=  39.39      38.27  ( 24)      9

 24  SOUTHWESTERN        (AA)=  39.13      38.81  ( 23)     10

 25  NORTHEAST           (AA)=  35.46      34.74  ( 25)      8

 26  I-AA INDEPENDENTS   (AA)=  31.77      32.51  ( 27)      4

 27  PIONEER             (AA)=  30.79      32.68  ( 26)      8

 28  METRO ATLANTIC      (AA)=  20.30      21.09  ( 28)      5

 29  ***UNRATED***       (**)= -90.00     -90.00  ( 29)      1

[windbane]

Just for fun:

  CONFERENCE          CENTRAL MEAN    SIMPLE AVERAGE  TEAMS

  1  PAC-10              (A) =  80.85      80.20  (  1)     10

  2  BIG EAST            (A) =  78.00      78.95  (  2)      8

  3  SOUTHEASTERN        (A) =  77.97      78.01  (  3)     12

  4  BIG TEN             (A) =  76.45      77.73  (  4)     11

  5  ATLANTIC COAST      (A) =  75.22      73.73  (  6)     12

  6  BIG 12              (A) =  73.98      74.12  (  5)     12

  7  MOUNTAIN WEST       (A) =  68.00      68.00  (  7)      9

  8  I-A INDEPENDENTS    (A) =  67.02      67.11  (  8)      4

  9  CONFERENCE USA      (A) =  64.62      64.72  ( 10)     12

 10  WESTERN ATHLETIC    (A) =  63.78      64.95  (  9)      9

 11  MID-AMERICAN        (A) =  61.54      61.73  ( 11)     12

 12  GREAT WEST          (AA)=  60.30      59.51  ( 12)      5

 13  ATLANTIC 10         (AA)=  57.50      58.38  ( 13)     12

 14  SUN BELT            (A) =  56.76      57.08  ( 14)      8

 15  GATEWAY             (AA)=  56.51      55.22  ( 15)      8

 16  BIG SKY             (AA)=  53.27      53.48  ( 16)      9

 17  IVY LEAGUE          (AA)=  49.63      49.50  ( 18)      8

 18  SOUTHERN            (AA)=  49.50      50.26  ( 17)      8

 19  BIG SOUTH           (AA)=  46.48      45.66  ( 19)      5

 20  SOUTHLAND           (AA)=  43.58      43.11  ( 20)      7

 21  PATRIOT LEAGUE      (AA)=  42.99      42.63  ( 21)      7

 22  OHIO VALLEY         (AA)=  41.98      42.30  ( 22)      9

 23  MID-EASTERN         (AA)=  39.39      38.27  ( 24)      9

 24  SOUTHWESTERN        (AA)=  39.13      38.81  ( 23)     10

 25  NORTHEAST           (AA)=  35.46      34.74  ( 25)      8

 26  I-AA INDEPENDENTS   (AA)=  31.77      32.51  ( 27)      4

 27  PIONEER             (AA)=  30.79      32.68  ( 26)      8

 28  METRO ATLANTIC      (AA)=  20.30      21.09  ( 28)      5

 29  ***UNRATED***       (**)= -90.00     -90.00  ( 29)      1

SEC = overrated  

[Bull Dozer]

Just for fun:

  CONFERENCE          CENTRAL MEAN    SIMPLE AVERAGE  TEAMS

  1  PAC-10              (A) =  80.85      80.20  (  1)     10

  2  BIG EAST            (A) =  78.00      78.95  (  2)      8

  3  SOUTHEASTERN        (A) =  77.97      78.01  (  3)     12

  4  BIG TEN             (A) =  76.45      77.73  (  4)     11

  5  ATLANTIC COAST      (A) =  75.22      73.73  (  6)     12

  6  BIG 12              (A) =  73.98      74.12  (  5)     12

  7  MOUNTAIN WEST       (A) =  68.00      68.00  (  7)      9

  8  I-A INDEPENDENTS    (A) =  67.02      67.11  (  8)      4

  9  CONFERENCE USA      (A) =  64.62      64.72  ( 10)     12

 10  WESTERN ATHLETIC    (A) =  63.78      64.95  (  9)      9

 11  MID-AMERICAN        (A) =  61.54      61.73  ( 11)     12

 12  GREAT WEST          (AA)=  60.30      59.51  ( 12)      5

 13  ATLANTIC 10         (AA)=  57.50      58.38  ( 13)     12

 14  SUN BELT            (A) =  56.76      57.08  ( 14)      8

 15  GATEWAY             (AA)=  56.51      55.22  ( 15)      8

 16  BIG SKY             (AA)=  53.27      53.48  ( 16)      9

 17  IVY LEAGUE          (AA)=  49.63      49.50  ( 18)      8

 18  SOUTHERN            (AA)=  49.50      50.26  ( 17)      8

 19  BIG SOUTH           (AA)=  46.48      45.66  ( 19)      5

 20  SOUTHLAND           (AA)=  43.58      43.11  ( 20)      7

 21  PATRIOT LEAGUE      (AA)=  42.99      42.63  ( 21)      7

 22  OHIO VALLEY         (AA)=  41.98      42.30  ( 22)      9

 23  MID-EASTERN         (AA)=  39.39      38.27  ( 24)      9

 24  SOUTHWESTERN        (AA)=  39.13      38.81  ( 23)     10

 25  NORTHEAST           (AA)=  35.46      34.74  ( 25)      8

 26  I-AA INDEPENDENTS   (AA)=  31.77      32.51  ( 27)      4

 27  PIONEER             (AA)=  30.79      32.68  ( 26)      8

 28  METRO ATLANTIC      (AA)=  20.30      21.09  ( 28)      5

 29  ***UNRATED***       (**)= -90.00     -90.00  ( 29)      1

SEC = overrated  

I <3 you (no homo)

[windbane]

heh, of course.  

[BullBlood]

stole this from a WVU poster.

SEC vs BCS     = 6-6

BE vs BCS       = 11-7

BIG 10 vs BCS = 7-7

Pac 10 vs BCS = 6-6

Big12 vs BCS   = 3-8

ACC vs BCS    = 4-9

The thing that jumps out at me here is the fact that the SEC has 12 teams and has played a total of 12 BCS opponents.  The BE has 8 teams and has played a total of 18 BCS opponents.  who's scheduling the cupcakes????  Also, BE is 21-1 against non-bcs schools.  Definately should help settle the BCS legitimacy controversy from last year.

[Joe]

Just to note the SEC still has 3 BCS opponents left:

FSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson

The difference betwenn the Big East and the Other conferences lies in the fact that we have 5 OOC games where ACC, Big 10, Big 12, SEC have 4, and the Pac 10 has 3.

If the Big East wasn't at least playing a few more OOC opponents than the other conferences we'd be in some trouble.

[sdgukhsdgl]

:

the SEC team generally schedule one "real" OOC game, there is no incentive for them to play anymore tough games.  The stadiums will be packed if it is Western Carolina or Ohio State.  SEC conference schedule means you have to play at least 2-3 TOP teams in conference, so there is no need to schedule marquee games OOC to showcase your team.  When you have to run a gauntlet like @UF, @UT, @Auburn, and @Arkansas (like LSU), why bother killing yourself with a hard OOC game? If you make it through all that with no losses or even one loss, you are goign to be a top 5 team in the country, at worst.  

[Apis Bull]

:

the SEC team generally schedule one "real" OOC game, there is no incentive for them to play anymore tough games.  The stadiums will be packed if it is Western Carolina or Ohio State.  SEC conference schedule means you have to play at least 2-3 TOP teams in conference, so there is no need to schedule marquee games OOC to showcase your team.  When you have to run a gauntlet like @UF, @UT, @Auburn, and @Arkansas (like LSU), why bother killing yourself with a hard OOC game? If you make it through all that with no losses or even one loss, you are goign to be a top 5 team in the country, at worst.  

Here's the problem.  How does anyone really know if the SEC is all that tough anymore?  I'm not saying it isn't, but they are living on reputation.  Georgia, has had a really bad year and yet people are saying it's one of the tough teams Florida played this year.  Everyone is saying the SEC is the toughest conference to get through, and it probably is, but there really isn't enough data (OOC BCS games) to say it with absolute certainty.