Thoughts on rivalries...

[BULLheaded]

Here is my question for you. If you had the chance to bring any team in the country to ray jay who would it be? Would you use that pick for UCF? Would UCF be in the top 5 of that list? Would you prefer them over UF, FSU, UM.....or more realistically would you rather it be them over Louisville, Pitt or WVU even? Not me, I'll take any of those teams along with a huge list of other teams before UCF would even get a thought. If you don't put them on the top of the list how can this really be an intense rivalry? If you do put them up there what is the attraction for you? Bragging rights for the state? Proof of how great a team we are? National exposure? National respect? Is it that they are so full of tradition and talent that being on the same field with them is great? Please help me here as I can't think of anything enticing in this game. Yes it's close but who really cares about distance if you don't care about the team?

[Bull Dozer]

 If everyone can think back to a time long long ago and maybe a place far far away called high school, who was your biggest rival?  Usually the school closest to you because you were either friends with alot of people on that roster or have been playing against them since you were little and hate them with a passion.   

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division.

Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  

[Bull Dozer]

Here is my question for you. If you had the chance to bring any team in the country to ray jay who would it be? Would you use that pick for UCF? Would UCF be in the top 5 of that list? Would you prefer them over UF, FSU, UM.....or more realistically would you rather it be them over Louisville, Pitt or WVU even? Not me, I'll take any of those teams along with a huge list of other teams before UCF would even get a thought. If you don't put them on the top of the list how can this really be an intense rivalry? If you do put them up there what is the attraction for you? Bragging rights for the state? Proof of how great a team we are? National exposure? National respect? Is it that they are so full of tradition and talent that being on the same field with them is great? Please help me here as I can't think of anything enticing in this game. Yes it's close but who really cares about distance if you don't care about the team?

yes they can come here but those teams already have enough tough rivalry games and arent looking for new ones.  Once this school gets to big 4 status i wouldnt be shocked to see most or maybe  all of them (but i doubt it) duck us.  Why schedule a team that is going to have alot of potential to beat you when your already in tough conferences that give you a pretty brutal schedule?

Edit: im referring to the state schools, i would love to get a real BE rival, and Rugters seems to be a logical choice as they are tryint to gain respect in the BE just as we are

[Guest]

Here is my question for you. If you had the chance to bring any team in the country to ray jay who would it be? Would you use that pick for UCF? Would UCF be in the top 5 of that list? Would you prefer them over UF, FSU, UM.....or more realistically would you rather it be them over Louisville, Pitt or WVU even? Not me, I'll take any of those teams along with a huge list of other teams before UCF would even get a thought. If you don't put them on the top of the list how can this really be an intense rivalry? If you do put them up there what is the attraction for you? Bragging rights for the state? Proof of how great a team we are? National exposure? National respect? Is it that they are so full of tradition and talent that being on the same field with them is great? Please help me here as I can't think of anything enticing in this game. Yes it's close but who really cares about distance if you don't care about the team?

I'm not really sure that's a valid measure.  Ask a Miami fan if they can have any team in the country, they will probably say Notre Dame - yet Florida State is their biggest rival.  FSU might not be in their Top 5.

Rivals are not a single home game, they are annual games played every year over the course of decades.  With that in mind, you have to be realistic in your expecations.  Not every team can be on the list of potential rivals.

So let me ask you, can you provide a realistic list of teams outside the Big East that could be available for an annual series with USF??

[JoeB]

In High School, it normally is the team closest to you, or the team you play the most.  I grew up in Ocala, so logically the rivalry is Forest versus Vanguard (Duante Culpepper's school).  Only about 5 miles seperates the two and we share a city stadium.  Naturally some small towns don't have more than one high school, so I'd have to say it would be the next closest town or a team from their conference they play every year.

[Joe]

Here is my question for you. If you had the chance to bring any team in the country to ray jay who would it be? Would you use that pick for UCF? Would UCF be in the top 5 of that list? Would you prefer them over UF, FSU, UM.....or more realistically would you rather it be them over Louisville, Pitt or WVU even? Not me, I'll take any of those teams along with a huge list of other teams before UCF would even get a thought. If you don't put them on the top of the list how can this really be an intense rivalry? If you do put them up there what is the attraction for you? Bragging rights for the state? Proof of how great a team we are? National exposure? National respect? Is it that they are so full of tradition and talent that being on the same field with them is great? Please help me here as I can't think of anything enticing in this game. Yes it's close but who really cares about distance if you don't care about the team?

Wow, This isn't a good example AT ALL.

Of COURSE there are other teams WE'D rather see at RJS.

You don't think Miami(OH) or Cincy would rather have UF or Miami come to their place? Of COURSE. That doesn't mean that game isn't a large rivalry.

You don't think Louisville would jump to have ND or Ohio State at Papa Johns over UK ? OF COURSE, that doesn't mean their rivalry with UK isn't big.

You don't think Utah would move their season ending game with BYU to get USC to visit them? OF Course

I'll concede that USF/UCF isn't a rivalry yet. However, it has the makings to be one:

1) Students and fans live in the same region. Many people know alumni of USF/UCF and work or went to school with them.

2) The game is realistic for both teams at this point. Sure we all know UF/FSU/Miami fans and students the same way, but realistically those schools aren't going to take us as a rival for a very long time

3) We recruit the same group guys. Many of the recruits play against each other, they take visits to schools with each other, they talk to each other, etc. Usually USF and UCF are battling for many of the same high school players and once they are in school they still know and talk to each other.

4) The campuses are 90 miles apart. Self explanatory.

5) Both want to be the "4th" team in the state.

[amie_abull]

To add to what Jim said, IMO you cannot define a rivalry by what school you would want to come to Ray Jay. Rivalries are, by definition, a back-and-forth exchange. I could say that I want Notre Dame to come here to play us because of their great football tradition, but that does not mean that they would want us to come to South Bend. Both UCF and USF have interest in playing each other in both Tampa and Orlando. What's so wrong with that?

[BullatFSU]

 If everyone can think back to a time long long ago and maybe a place far far away called high school, who was your biggest rival?  Usually the school closest to you because you were either friends with alot of people on that roster or have been playing against them since you were little and hate them with a passion.   

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division.

Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to UF fans.   Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either.

So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent.

At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistency in recruiting and  play at bowl-worthy level, . UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF.  

[Bull Dozer]

 If everyone can think back to a time long long ago and maybe a place far far away called high school, who was your biggest rival?  Usually the school closest to you because you were either friends with alot of people on that roster or have been playing against them since you were little and hate them with a passion.   

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division.

Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to FSU fans.   Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either.

So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent.

At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistent play at bowl-worthy level. UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF.  

why dont you go ask the players if its important or not.......And ok i used a bad example, ok how about USC Vs ND, UF Vs UGA.  Nitpicking my analogy doesnt prove anything, like i said it starts with the players and if you've read anything all from our players about this game they are amped and ready and treating it like a rivalry.  

[JoeB]

Not so sure about that UF/FSU comment.  I moved from Philly to Ocala in '78 and my parents got season tickets to Gator games.  I recall being a youngster not knowing about either UF or FSU but I knew it was already a heated rivalry.  I was 8 years old.

Actually there are some similarities between UCF/USF of now and UF/FSU of '78.  Neither teams liked each other, and neither teams were very good.  

Interestingly enough, UF/FSU didn't always play at the end of the year.  Many times in the 60s and 70s they played in the first month or two of the season.  I think in '77 they changed the date of the annual series.