BullatFSU

Both names are being floated around in fan circles and in the press. The "hip" pick is Schiano, but IMO he's still unproven; he's brought RU out of the basement, but hasn't beaten a single ranked team yet. And Butch burned a lot of bridges when he left town, AND is rumored to have had a nervous breakdown, though speculation has it that he's looking to get back into coaching and would come back to UM if asked...

Rumor has it he's got a release clause in contract in the event that Miami comes calling.

Did you read the entire list? Did you see USC and UCLA, both playing in pro stadiums? And many ranking such as this also have the Orange Bowl (even in its current crappy shape) listed among the lower top-25, for sheer big-game atmosphere alone. Most of the other schools listed are in non-metropolitan areas with no pro facilities around.

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to UF fans.  Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either. So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent. At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistency in recruiting and  play at bowl-worthy level, . UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF.  You must be very young or a Yankee from out-of-state. FSU-UF WAS a big deal to those living in FLA...even when it started in the 50's...when FSU had to travel 7-8 straight times to G'ville. Heck...FSU and UF fans that have been around the block awhile still talk about the "Catch/Call" from the game in 1966. FSU fans even have still photos that show the WR was IN BOUNDS in the endzone, but the SEC ref said he wasn't. The Orlando Sentinel had a nice recap of the FSU-UF rivalry on how it started...here's a look at their first decade of games: Rivalry took off in '60s UF-FSU rose in stature later, but these key games stoked the fire. Mike Huguenin Sentinel Staff Writer November 21, 2005 Believe it or not, the Florida-Florida State rivalry began in 1958. While many Gators seem to think UF football began in 1990 and many 'Noles seem to think FSU began playing in the late 1970s, the schools did play football before then. To impart some knowledge to those folks -- and to help first-year UF Coach Urban Meyer get better acquainted with the rivalry -- the Sentinel is going to highlight key moments from past UF-FSU games. Part 1 looks at three games from the early days: 1960: The game itself was a defensive-minded affair, won 3-0 by the Gators on Sept. 24 in Gainesville in the third game of the series. It's what happened before the game -- in late August, to be precise -- that makes this one memorable. UF FB Jon MacBeth was approached by two men -- one a fraternity brother -- who offered him $1,500 to shave points when the teams met. MacBeth instead went to the police, who arrested the men on game day. 1964: This was the seventh game in the series, but the first in Tallahassee. UF led the series 5-0-1, with the tie coming in 1961 (after which FSU fans rushed the field and tried to tear down the goalposts). Some UF players wore stickers saying, "Never, FSU, Never," on their helmets during the week of practice before the game, and UF's jerseys had the words "Go for Seven" above the numbers for the game. But FSU got its first win in the series, 16-7. 1966: FSU had the ball on UF's 45, trailing 22-19 with 17 seconds left. QB Gary Pajcic launched a pass to the end zone to 6-foot-5 WR Lane Fenner, who appeared to make a miraculous over-the-shoulder catch with his right knee down in the end zone. But field judge Doug Moseley, an SEC official, ruled he was out of bounds. FSU missed a long field goal on the final play of the game that would've tied it. FYI...here's a Tampa Tribune comment about that same game and photo http://media.tbo.com/photos/sports/2005/nov/1121fenner.jpg 1. Lane Fenner's non-catch, 1966 (Florida 22, FSU 19) Posted November 21, 2005 by Joey Johnston It was another era - before instant replay, before rampant dissection of plays by ESPN’s College GameDay crew, before every Florida and FSU game was televised. One still photograph was worth a thousand cries of anguish from Seminoles fans. Long-time FSU boosters still have the widely circulated image. It still hangs in the office of FSU president T.K. Wetherell, a former Seminoles wide receiver, and in his box at Doak Campbell Stadium. Lane Fenner was in! But just as Seminole fans erupted to celebrate what would’ve been a monumental victory against the Gators, field judge Doug Moseley (an SEC official) gave a different ruling. Lane Fenner was out! ‘’We thought our world had come to an end,’’ Wetherell said. ‘’There is absolutely and utterly no doubt about what happened on that play. It was a catch.’’ -------------- Florida 22, FSU 19 Posted November 22, 2005 by Joey Johnston At Tallahassee: Nov. 8, 1966 Steve Spurrier’s 41-yard touchdown pass to Larry Smith put the Gators ahead to stay, but the story had only just begun. No one will forget the finish. FSU’s Gary Pajcic had thrown an apparent game-winning 45-yard TD pass to Lane Fenner with 17 seconds remaining. But field judge Doug Moseley, an SEC official, ruled that Fenner didn’t have possession of the ball before rolling out of bounds. Newspaper photographs were published that showed Fenner catching the pass while landing some 2 feet inside the boundary. The controversy rages on - even 39 years later! I know full well they began playing in the 50's. I'm not THAT young, and I've actually lived in both Gainesville and Tallahassee. each for about 8 years. And to say that it was a full-on heated "rivalry" with major consequences for both schools in its early stages is a bit of a stretch, IMO. It's the difference between a rivalry of national importance and one of local importance, I suppose. I noted the Memphis vs. Tennessee earlier...in the early stages, FSU-UF was like that. FSU lost 16 of the first 19 games to UF. It wasn't a make-or-break game for either school...it's not as though if UF beat FSU, it made the whole season for their fans, as it might today. Except for a handful of "special" plays, those first 19 games were massively unspectacular. Again, it wasn't until they both became "good" teams on a yearly basis that it carried as much weight--both to locals and those outside the state--as it does now. That being said, I also know that it takes time for a rivalry to blossom to its full potential, to grow from one of local to national importance, and that you've gotta start somewhere. I just question whether UCF is really the team that we need to set our sights on forming such a relationship with. I have a hard time imagining 5 schools from the state--UM, UF, FSU, USF, AND UCF--of all being BCS-worthy. Texas and California, both states with more schools and a longer football tradition that Florida, each have only 4 schools in BCS conferences. And (call me impatient and arrogant) I don't really feel like waiting for another major conference shake-up to find out whether UCF is going to get there or not. We need an "instant" rivalry of sorts, someone close by that we can form those local ties with, but who's also playing at our same level (or higher) of competition. UM, UF, and FSU all seem great choices, and I think we should badger them for as long as it takes, just as UCF is badgering us. If not one of those 3, then I'd look out of state before I picked up UCF. Ga. Tech, maybe, or LSU, even. A "city" team in the southeast, a team that is already established that we would have (or hope to eventually have) a lot in common with. The fact that UCF is 90 miles up the road means very little to me in terms of the level of play and intensity of rivalry.

You're right, you can't force a rivalry. UCF seems like they're trying to do just that.

I'm sure it was. But I'd rather not form a "rivalry" that won't come to fruition for another 20-30 years (as long as it took for the UF-FSU game to become any sort of real game) if we don't have to.

"Similar level" does not always equal "similar ability", especially in the world of the BCS. The BE, as a BCS member,  is a higher level than is C-USA. Simple as that.  No matter how good UCF becomes in the C-USA, they'll not be competing "at the same level" as USF in the BE. Heck, they may even be able to beat USF, but they'll still be competing on a different level. They'll continue to have a harder time getting national notoriety and impressing the media. They'll continue to have a harder time getting decent bowls. And they'll continue to have a harder time recruiting. USF already has those advantages over UCF, just based on it's affiliation with the Big East; so they're clearly NOT playing for the same things. UCF  needs to beat big-conference foes like USF to get there, while USF is already there. Again, the only thing they're playing for, IMO, is in-state notoriety. USF won't get any "lil feel good up and coming" stories by beating UCF, nor do they need that. They already got a taste of those stories by beating Louisville last year, and only a win as significant as that can generate that type of publicity; UCF-USF isn't even going to be a blip on any radar outside the state--and even within the state, few north of Orlando and east of Tampa will devote more than a minor head-nod to the game one way or the other. The type of publicity that it takes to generate interest from prize recruits is far more large-scale than that.

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to FSU fans.  Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either. So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent. At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistent play at bowl-worthy level. UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF.  why dont you go ask the players if its important or not.......And ok i used a bad example, ok how about USC Vs ND, UF Vs UGA.  Nitpicking my analogy doesnt prove anything, like i said it starts with the players and if you've read anything all from our players about this game they are amped and ready and treating it like a rivalry.  Dude, it doesn't matter what example you want to use, the same rule applies. USC-ND was a rivaly because both teams were giants competing year in and year out for national supremacy.  UF and UGA were rivals because they were the big boys of the SEC, both competing for that conference championship on a yearly basis. Think about it--why didn't UF form a rivalry with GA Tech? They're just as close in proximity to UF as is UGA.  It all boils down to competing on a similar level for a BIG common goal. And if competing for notoriety in the state of FLA is the only common thing between UCF and USF, that's a pretty flimsy bond. Who gives a crap about the rivalry between Tennessee and Memphis, for instance, other than the players on either team that might have gone to HS together? No one. The fans don't. The nation doesn't. There's more to a rivalry than that, IMO.

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to UF fans.  Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either. So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent. At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistency in recruiting and play at bowl-worthy level, . UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF. ÂÂ

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. While UCF and USF are indeed both fighting for recognition in the state of FLA, each sees a different path to get there. I think in USF's case, the idea is to do a whole lot of things simultaneously, to get there as quickly as possible. Seems like we want to gain national recognition at the same time (or even before) we want to gain in-state recognition... if we can get "national" exposure first, the state recognition will follow...or so the idea goes. In-state rivalries take a back-seat in this scenario. While they're a nice thing to have, no doubt, they're not a necessity--especially with teams who are a step down from your division/conference like UCF in the C-USA. UCF's appraoch seems to be a bit more tied to making it big in the state first, then expanding to a national level. It might take a bit longer (as witnessed by the fact that UCF has been playing ball longer than we have, yet doesn't have the BCS conference membership that we do) but it'll all (hopefully) lead to the same place. It's just a matter of having a differnent buisiness model, IMO, and in the model UCF is using, in-state rivalries play a larger role.