Podcast New pod by Carrying Cord - USF wins the American?

[Bear]

1 hour ago, Dave_Glaser said:

Skip sucked, but if you’d given Charlie more time, he would have completely cratered. I work now with a guy who was in the USF athletic leadership under Willie and Charlie, and he said it was obvious that Charlie planned to take the team Willie left him, win big and parlay it immediately back into a P5 job. When that didn’t happen, he hadn’t put any effort into recruiting and wanted out as soon as possible. Didn’t want to be at USF at all.

That said, Skip’s recruiting may have been even worse. The team he left Taggart was the smallest and SLOWEST in program history.

Scott was in over his head from the start. If he’d taken over a team that wasn’t a complete and total wreck, he may still be here. He didn’t need his first job as a head coach to be a complete rebuild. He wasn’t ready for that.

I agree with all of this; except:

 

Quote

it was obvious that Charlie planned to take the team Willie left him, win big and parlay it immediately back into a P5 job. When that didn’t happen, he hadn’t put any effort into recruiting and wanted out as soon as possible. Didn’t want to be at USF at all.

His first season was very strong; but, the play style was visibly weak on the field. It seemed very low effort from the beginning of his tenure. 

 

[Ghostbuster]

12 hours ago, cc_pookah said:

I look forward to  everyone agreeing with me that CSH was the worst coach for USF after listening to this weeks episode.

I will take the bait after listening to the pod.

Did Holtz drop the ball when the Big East fell apart?  Yep.  But I would argue the impact of him being bad at that time is minimal because

a) Cincy had more success than us in the Big East, and they still got relegated to the AAC

b) USF was still respectable enough (at that point in time) because of the Leavitt years.  Our brand was not an embarrassment.

Jeff Scott on the other hand, left us in such a bad place that we've been passed over by multiple conference realignments (Pac12, Big12, ACC) and our brand is so toxic the AAC hardly wants to acknowledge our existence in ads.  Nobody is touching USF because we've been sucking for too long; and Scott reinforced that by having a historically bad run with literally the worst defense in the country last year. 

Pretend you could move the Big12/Pac12/ACC realignments to one of two points in history:

a) 2012/2013 at end of the Holtz Era

b) 2022/2023 at end of the Scott era

When would USF have the better chance of getting picked by a Power Conference?

Come on it's "a".  Therefore Holtz did not leave us worse than Scott did, and Holtz cannot be our worst coach.  Scott takes that honor by a landslide.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Ghostbuster

[Sk00b]

5 minutes ago, Ghostbuster said:

Jeff Scott on the other hand, left us in such a bad place that we've been passed over by multiple conference realignments (Pac12, Big12, ACC) and our brand is so toxic the AAC hardly wants to acknowledge our existence in ads

But at the end of the day, who hired CJS? Again, im interested in that conversation around the history of our AD's and their impact. You guys touched on it with woolard but how much blame falls on these guys? Was Woolaed successful in other sports? Do they get enough credit when there is success? We look at these guys from football/basketball success/failure but what impact do they have across the university as a whole?

I see people mention CJL for AD and just laugh. I don't see him puttin up with the politics.

[Triple B]

25 minutes ago, Ghostbuster said:

Jeff Scott on the other hand, left us in such a bad place that we've been passed over by multiple conference realignments (Pac12, Big12, ACC)

So which school do we take the place of if CJS didn't suck horribly? I don't think there's a rational case for us replacing any of them ....

[Sk00b]

33 minutes ago, Triple B said:

So which school do we take the place of if CJS didn't suck horribly? I don't think there's a rational case for us replacing any of them ....

Which schools were they? I already can't name all four.

Nm. You're right. Wouldn't have mattered.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Sk00b
got it

[Ghostbuster]

8 hours ago, Triple B said:

So which school do we take the place of if CJS didn't suck horribly? I don't think there's a rational case for us replacing any of them ....

So my comments were more directed at showing the situation today is worse than at the end of the Holtz regime.  (Which from the pod felt like the main rationale behind 'Holtz was the worst'- because he stunk at the worst time)

I'm not saying that 3 good years under Scott would have definitely given us one of the Houston/UCF/Cincy/BYU spots, but it would have helped.  And remember we've been losing every popularity contest since that expansion, thanks to Scott's *historically* bad run.  Deon picked Colorado over us, Big12 took Colorado over us, and SMU looks to be closer to joining the ACC over us.  (And despite having a coaching vacancy so early last year, we hired our coach after most had found theirs; so how many passed over us?)

We can't even complain about not being picked by another conference because people will say how long we've sucked.  And they can say that because Scott shattered any reputation we had left.

9 hours ago, Sk00b said:

But at the end of the day, who hired CJS? Again, im interested in that conversation around the history of our AD's and their impact. 

100% agree the ADs failed us more.  2023 being the first full year to have an IPF is malfeasance on the part of everyone prior to Kelly.

[Triple B]

10 hours ago, Triple B said:

So which school do we take the place of if CJS didn't suck horribly? I don't think there's a rational case for us replacing any of them ....

 

1 hour ago, Ghostbuster said:

So my comments were more directed at showing the situation today is worse than at the end of the Holtz regime.  (Which from the pod felt like the main rationale behind 'Holtz was the worst'- because he stunk at the worst time)

I'm not saying that 3 good years under Scott would have definitely given us one of the Houston/UCF/Cincy/BYU spots, but it would have helped.  And remember we've been losing every popularity contest since that expansion, thanks to Scott's *historically* bad run.  Deon picked Colorado over us, Big12 took Colorado over us, and SMU looks to be closer to joining the ACC over us.  (And despite having a coaching vacancy so early last year, we hired our coach after most had found theirs; so how many passed over us?)

We can't even complain about not being picked by another conference because people will say how long we've sucked.  And they can say that because Scott shattered any reputation we had left.

100% agree the ADs failed us more.  2023 being the first full year to have an IPF is malfeasance on the part of everyone prior to Kelly.

Gets kinda complicated but if we're talking about the "worst" in regards to expansion opportunities, it may have to go back to CSH. That's when the 3 who moved up started their resume for advancement, rarely looking back. You can look at CCS as almost just as bad because if he could have built upon what Willie started, we may be looking at at least being in serious consideration for the Big 12 grab.

Scott only had 1 Covid ******* up year.year here before the Big 12 invites went out. There's nothing he could have done, outside of a real natty, to possibly replace any of the 3 that went .... but maybe they take 4 from the AAC at that point. As far as losing popularity contests, PT was going to a P5 and was just screwing around with us. Colorado went 1-11 last year hasn't had a winning season in 6 years. That invite wasn't football related. Neither is SMU's if they get the ACC invite. Their's is about location and $$$.

Bottom line is we agree on CJS being the worst USF coach but for different reasons. Mine's strictly based on 1 FBS win in 3 years.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Triple B

[Ghostbuster]

2 hours ago, Triple B said:

Gets kinda complicated but if we're talking about the "worst" in regards to expansion opportunities, it may have to go back to CSH. That's when the 3 who moved up started their resume for advancement, rarely looking back. 

I actually agree with most of what you said, except this.  USF and Cincinnati (who had FOUR Big East championships) missed the boat on on realignment when the BigEast imploded.

The best Holtz could have gotten us was 3 conference championships.  Since 3 is less than the 4 Cincy had...his tenure was not that consequential.

Yes multiple other coaches and circumstances could have altered our paths.  I'm solely focus on 'Holtz did not cause us to lose the BigEast realignment' and if I can prove that I can disprove that being used as the metric by others to say he was the worst.  

[Triple B]

2 hours ago, Ghostbuster said:

I actually agree with most of what you said, except this.  USF and Cincinnati (who had FOUR Big East championships) missed the boat on on realignment when the BigEast imploded.

The best Holtz could have gotten us was 3 conference championships.  Since 3 is less than the 4 Cincy had...his tenure was not that consequential.

Yes multiple other coaches and circumstances could have altered our paths.  I'm solely focus on 'Holtz did not cause us to lose the BigEast realignment' and if I can prove that I can disprove that being used as the metric by others to say he was the worst.  

Whoa, whoa, whoa ..... my apologies. I totally missed that any of this was talking about the BE realignment. Holtz was a total non factor in that one .... I was referring to him not improving on what CJL started to help in the future ones. If he had, we may be in a different place.