Rating the state's RB's

[Guest USFPDIDDYguest]

Michael Bush is a monster...He doesn't have the vision of Hall but he will probably go higher barring injury or a terrible combine.  The kid's huge, but also fast, and strong.

Physically, Washington is just better, a lot of backs are.  Hall is pretty good physically, but no where near the best, so he's gotta use his intelligence even more.  In college, he's had no problem.  In the NFL, he might.  He needs to bulk up.  Add 15 pounds to him and all of a sudden he's a decent backup NFL back with average hitting power/speed but good vision.  15 pounds isnt impossible...green added what, 20?

If hall gets to 220 and has a season like 1500 yards, he'll probably make 3rd round.  That's quite a challenge, but look around the country.  There's a guy at FSU, a guy at Memphis, a guy at USC, etc.  Hall IS probably in the top 10 because not all good backs will come out this year...top 10 RB wont get you into 3rd round though...top 5 might!  He needs to keep training!  I really honestly doubt he'll look like clinton portis or terrel davis in the NFL, but he's still got the potential to make some decent money there if he can get himself physically ready.  (heck, i'd take the minimum salary for nfl players any day)

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

Bob, also you're forgetting that USF lacked a good passing game last year so they relied on the run more meaning Hall got more carries.  You're right a balanced game does do a RB better, but also gives him less carries.  In college Marshall Faulk is what is known as a "once in a lifetime back."  You knew he was special.  He was recruited by the big schools too (LSU, Nebraska, Miami) but they wanted him as a CB.  Probably because he wasn't very big and didn't have the size of your prototype running back.  He was listed at 185 pounds his phenomenal freshman year.  You're also forgetting, yes he did play in a weak conference but in that weak conference he put up super numbers (in comparison to Hall's numbers).  I don't know if you remember but he once held the single game rushing record.  It was against a weak team (pacific which no longer has football), but for a freshman to gain 299 yards rushing in a single game is phenomenal no matter what conference you are in.  Marshall also played his best against the best.  His freshman year against that loaded Univ. of Miami team he ran for 128 yards.  That defense of UM was known as the best in the country.  That Miami team only gave up a 100 yards rushing to one RB twice that year......once to faulk and the other time to Florida State against a RB named Sammie Smith who wasn't a bad back himself.   And guess what?  SDSU was a PASSING offense.  They did something similar to USF's spread with a one back but it was under center and the receivers spread the defense.  The WAC in those days was known as a passing conference that put up phenomenal numbers.  Also, look at Ty Detmer.  Detmer was in that conference and shreded teams.  HE even shredded the University of Miami his junior year.  Again, that UM team was considered a strong defense.  So what I'm trying to say is, Marshall and Ty Detmer played in weaker conferences back then......but they shredded the competition in those games PLUS they were outstanding against the heavyweights (i.e. Univ. of Miami).  Also don't even compare Marhall to Andre Hall.  In college you knew Marshall Faulk would be a great NFL player.  That's why he was drafted third overall!  Andre Hall won't even be a first round pick and they are both very similar in size.  But Hall doesn't have what Marshall had.  I laugh at those of you who compare the guy to Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and Marshall Faulk.  Whoa nellie!  let's not get too carried away.  Andre is a good back.  But not in the class of those guys.  Again, those guys were all first round NFL picks.  But for those of you who know football will know that the best back in the state is probably Washington from FSU.  He runs a little stronger than Hall and breaks tackles, has better breakaway speed.  he's also a receiving threat out of the backfield.  But again, Washington shares carries with Booker and probably will share with Antoine Smith.  I would say Washington is among the top 8 backs in college football where as Andre is in the top 15 to 20.  

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

In short, Marshall Faulk and Ty Detmer played in weak conferences, but they put up some super numbers in that weak conference.  If you put marshall Faulk in last year's Conference USA, he would have put up greater numbers than Hall.  Hall didn't shred the conference for phenomenal yards like Faulk and Detmer did in the old WAC.  They were super players in a weak conference where as Hall is a good player in a weak conference.  Put it this way, Faulk and Detmer are household names in terms of college football history where I doubt Hall will be.  he will be in USF history, but not college football history.  Faulk was a heisman runner up and Detmer was a Heisman winner.  big difference there Bob-O.  

Again, those two played in weak conference but shredded the record books in those weak conference.  Faulk almost rushed for 2,000 yards in a passing offense.  And the SDSU passing game was good that year.  They had an All-American WR named Darnay Scott who ended up being an NFL player himself.  Hall is not putting up the same numbers and the same highlight reel games in Conference USA as Faulk did in the WAC.

[USFPhil]

VR,

You have to be kidding yes USF relied heavily on Hall giving him more carries meaning more total yards but he also averaged 6.5 yards per carry not bad.  Also with us having a limited passing game teams consistently put 8-9 guys in the box to stop Hall. Get a clue and stop just throwing out information with out doing all the research. If Hall got 1300 yards getting tons of carries averaging to 1.5 yards per carry you would have a point but he was getting 6.5 yards per carry a very respectable number.

Halls 6.5 is comparable to Washingtons 6.9 last year and Hall did it with out the HELP of a passing game.

[dabull80]

Don't waste your breath Phil, VR thinks that because some RB will be a higher pick in the NFL draft that makes him a better RB in college.  He thinks because a guy runs faster,is bigger etc etc etc he is better but again being a team sport Andre brings more to the table as a "TEAM" player then anyone.  I bet VR is still wondering how the Pats won that many Super Bowls without those bigger faster stronger superstars the other teams have, but what do I know as VR said not much about football.

[BullDoug]

Let's not forget that Hall didn't truly have the starting RB position until TCU game.  He split time in the first couple of games.  And Hall was still getting a feel for the D1A game.  Hall is a Top 20 RB in D1 football.  Nobody is saying Hall is better than Washington, Williams, Bush or even Pederson.  Stop kicking a dead horse for cryin' out loud.  Andre will be break 1000 yds in 2005 & be drafted barring injury (Knock on wood).  'Nuff said.

[Bullpride08]

Bob, also you're forgetting that USF lacked a good passing game last year so they relied on the run more meaning Hall got more carries.  You're right a balanced game does do a RB better, but also gives him less carries.  In college Marshall Faulk is what is known as a "once in a lifetime back."  You knew he was special.  He was recruited by the big schools too (LSU, Nebraska, Miami) but they wanted him as a CB.  Probably because he wasn't very big and didn't have the size of your prototype running back.  He was listed at 185 pounds his phenomenal freshman year.  You're also forgetting, yes he did play in a weak conference but in that weak conference he put up super numbers (in comparison to Hall's numbers).  I don't know if you remember but he once held the single game rushing record.  It was against a weak team (pacific which no longer has football), but for a freshman to gain 299 yards rushing in a single game is phenomenal no matter what conference you are in.  Marshall also played his best against the best.  His freshman year against that loaded Univ. of Miami team he ran for 128 yards.  That defense of UM was known as the best in the country.  That Miami team only gave up a 100 yards rushing to one RB twice that year......once to faulk and the other time to Florida State against a RB named Sammie Smith who wasn't a bad back himself.   And guess what?  SDSU was a PASSING offense.  They did something similar to USF's spread with a one back but it was under center and the receivers spread the defense.  The WAC in those days was known as a passing conference that put up phenomenal numbers.  Also, look at Ty Detmer.  Detmer was in that conference and shreded teams.  HE even shredded the University of Miami his junior year.  Again, that UM team was considered a strong defense.  So what I'm trying to say is, Marshall and Ty Detmer played in weaker conferences back then......but they shredded the competition in those games PLUS they were outstanding against the heavyweights (i.e. Univ. of Miami).  Also don't even compare Marhall to Andre Hall.  In college you knew Marshall Faulk would be a great NFL player.  That's why he was drafted third overall!  Andre Hall won't even be a first round pick and they are both very similar in size.  But Hall doesn't have what Marshall had.  I laugh at those of you who compare the guy to Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and Marshall Faulk.  Whoa nellie!  let's not get too carried away.  Andre is a good back.  But not in the class of those guys.  Again, those guys were all first round NFL picks.  But for those of you who know football will know that the best back in the state is probably Washington from FSU.  He runs a little stronger than Hall and breaks tackles, has better breakaway speed.  he's also a receiving threat out of the backfield.  But again, Washington shares carries with Booker and probably will share with Antoine Smith.  I would say Washington is among the top 8 backs in college football where as Andre is in the top 15 to 20.  

VR you are right about the balanced attack to an extent,  however we had a very poor defense last year which surrendered lots of points early in most games, and despite a bad passing attack we often abandoned the run for the pass to try and catch up.   To be fair to Hall if you go back last year it is quite obvious that Hall DIDN'T benefit from the lack of a balanced attack because of the poor defense.  In the games that we had some semblence of a passing attack, and were able to keep the defenses honest and in check in those games Hall got his highest number of carries and racked up the most yards.  Check the stats, but against UAB, ECU,  Army, and TCU Hall racked up a lion share of his yards.  The defenses were weaker, true, but the passing game didn't allow them to cheat an extra man into the box.  Look at USM, Andre Hall ran for 62 yards on 14 carries, but after the middle of the 3rd quarter, when we fell behind 20-3, Andre Hall got one more carry from that point forward.  Furthermore, by the end of the first half PJ was 4-15 with two INT's.  The way USM plays they just shoved 9 in the box and then when we fell to far behind Hall didn't get anymore carries.  If PJ's completing a few passes in the first half, and the scores close then Hall gets more carries and gets his 100 yards.

The same situation occurred at Louisville, an even better example is the Cinci game.  Look at Cincinnati, in the first half we were battling back and forth and Andre Hall had 12 carries for 142 yards!  In the second half he got a total of 4 carries for 19 yards.  Not coincidentally Cinci got possession to start the first half and went up 31-17 and then never looked back.  If the game is closer, and we're battling Andre runs for over 200 yards, and Cinci had a solid defense.

True the lack of a passing attack hurt, but it hurt Hall because despite a poor passing attack last year the defense was also porous, and thus surrendered a lot of points and usually early.  Which, despite a poor passing attack, forced us to abandon the run early in most games.  If the defense improves this year, and we get some passing game then I could see Hall get more yards and look better.

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

Again, I'm talking to freshman and juniors who don't know anything about football and don't know much about football outside of USF football.  Nice to be a fan, but if you ask any reporter, coach, analyst, etc.  Many of them will have Washington ranked as among the top ten RB's in the nation where as Hall is in the top 20.  Washington may not mean as much to his team as Hall does because FSU has more weapons.....including two other **** good RB's.  Running against ACC defenses is a lot harder than Conference USA.  If you want to put HAll up there with the best......then he needs to do what Marshall did at SDSU which was getting him on sportscenter highlights every weekend which is totally blow the competition away.  By the way, did i forget to mention that Marshall did that in a passing offense?  He was also runner up for the Heisman.  I doubt Hall will be the runner up for the heisman.  BUT, I think Hall might be Big EAst offensive player of the year if he does what he did last year.   If you want to talk about the top RB's in the nation, you mention:  Hart from Michigan, the kid from Minnesota, Reggie Bush and LenDale White, WASHINGTON from FSU, DeAngelo Williams from memphis.  Hall is not quite in that class.  HE's in the top 20 but not in the top 10.   Again, i ask you folks to start thinking outside of the box!  meaning look outside of USF and college football in general.  I'm sure back then you all probably thought Marquell was the best QB in the nation.  He was among the best....but not the best.  

[CyberBull]

V_R:

Put Andre Hall behind FSU's offensive line and see how many more yards he gets.

The bottom line is that we won't know who is going to be the better pro running back until they make the pros. What matters for USF fans is what he can do for the Bulls. For your all your efforts to knock him down, you really haven't told us anything your average college/NFL draftnik hasn't  heard before.

There are so many exceptions to the rule that they are the norm. Brian Westbrook from the Philadelphia Eagles has been an impact player in the NFL despite being much smaller than Andre and running a 4.6 - 4.7 40 time. Yet he got himself drafted and has made a ton money in the NFL.

BTW, how many prototype NFL players have been busts?

The list is long and expensive. So do us a favor, if you want to fall all over FSU's running backs go to their board. I don't people being critical about USF, or "thinking outside the box" a phrase you cleverly have made up, however you seem to go out of your way to bash the kid. Does he owe you money or take your chick?

[CyberBull]

1st

16 Cleveland William Green RB Boston College

18 Atlanta T.J. Duckett RB Michigan State

2nd

34 Carolina DeShaun Foster RB UCLA

51 Denver Clinton Portis RB Miami

54 Seattle Maurice Morris RB Oregon

3rd

84 St. Louis Lamar Gordon RB North Dakota State

91 Philadelphia Brian Westbrook RB Villanova

6th

207 Baltimore Chester Taylor RB Toledo

funny how all those big-name, big-school running backs chosen in the 2002 draft have been no where as productive as Westbrook and Chester Taylor. Clinton Portis was the RB in that draft but even on him the scouts found enough 'flaws' to drop him out of the big $$$ first round.

The bottom line is we don't know how good a pro Hall is going to be, so it's unfair for you to come on hear with a supposed "expert" opinion and diminish Hall's skill set as unworthy of a NFL career.

From my point of view, the kid has a great heart and considering how easy it could have been for him to give up on college football after moving around so much, he has the sticktoitiveness that I want my football team.