With Smith hired: I have 2 season tickets 4 sale

[USFMikeB]

The fact of the matter is that there are people on this board that have said they will give up season tickets and withdraw financial support for athletics over this hire.  If you think is the definition of a real fan, then that is your own opinion.  My opinion is that real fans don't automatically withdraw support for their college team because they don't like the guy that was hired to be the OC.  That is chickenshit, bush league, and indicative of a petulant crybaby that the program doesn't need anyways.

[Brad]

"Real fans" put up FireRonZook.com, right?

Bulls fans, let's not make this personal.  All opinions should be welcomed, that is, opinions on the hire - not opinions of each other.

As board admins we do not censor opinions.  We probably should delete more than we do - especially the ones that go off topic.  And in some cases, like this, we probably should call an end to the personal side of the argument.

Much like I do with the fine people I've come across here - I just have to agree to disagree.  I have my sparring partners (you know who you are,  ;D).

As far as giving up tickets or donations to USF over this hire, there was an infinitesimal small number that suggested they would do so.  Most rational people know that is a comment made out of emotion rather than good sense.  A shortsighted option indeed.

Pull it together, we still have more than 100 days until kickoff.  

[BULLheaded]

You've got a better grasp on the english language.  I was simply using a slang term when stating "calling out".  You said it better with "Disdain" yet in your infinite wisdom you failed to rationalize that essentially they mean the same?  So instead of 'calling out' someone, you prefer that many despise, scorn, or hate their coach without provocation, or a real understanding of the facts or reasons behind this move.  They simply instigate the situation, and attack the coach without all the facts instead of ruminating over the topic and awaiting until all the information, or more is readily available.

Again, the 'disdain' is unwarranted, and unsubstantiated.  Criticize as you wish, but when I am speaking the truth and get chastized then that's when I decide to go on the offensive.  Mr. BULLHEADED, as you definitely are in keeping with your moniker, you seem just as willing and aggressive when it comes toward getting your point across.

My position doesn't come from the basis of 'opinion', but if you, and other would prefer to seeth on the basis of insinuations, and half-cocked opinions then so be it.  You and your ilk seem to denounce and discredit anyone that speaks positively or against your position with an incredulous tone.  As if to say, "We don't want to know the facts, we hate it and no one can tell us differently."  A rather bad-mannered approach to supporting a position.  

No one is telling you, or others how to think, act or base an opinion on.  However, to create an insidious persona about this decision, and continually pouncing on any positive points, or points otherwise taken by myself or others, because they happen to not take on the straight negative tone of your view points, is just as bold and arrogant as your accusations directed toward me.

But please, by all mean give me the old "I know you are but what am I" routine.  You've carried it on well thus far.

Let me be more precise then since Mr bien didn't quite grasp what mr bullheaded said. I don't see a "calling out" of a person but a disdain for a DECISION a person made. Can you not really see a difference? There are many people I admire and respect in this world but there is very little chance that I agree with every decision they make. In THIS particular case I see alot of disdain for a PARTICULAR choice that Leavitt made. To make it even simpler how is this:

Coach------------------------> no disdain

decision made by coach-----> disdain

Maybe you see those as the same thing, if so it obviously explains why you can't have a disagreement with someone without resorting to calling them ignorant.

Actually bien why don't you take a look at my posts and you'll see I've only commented on a couple points you made. The first was actually agreeing with you on the possibility that due to the timing this may have been necessary with the caveat that I don't understand why this wouldn't be a temporary decision if that were the case. Second, was taking what you said about leavitt not willing to look at anyone no matter how talented for the position and that we should just expect someone who will run what he wants as the major critera for the hire, I appologize if I find that disturbing and you don't. Lastly, I did call YOU out (not the coach) on the infuriating way you throw out the "ignorant" card if you disagree with someone. You say my name is suiting, I don't disagree with that but don't turn around and call me arogant when it is you who resorts to the name calling if disagreed with. Now on a final note, I did ask you earlier what you feel smith has done to earn this promotion and have yet to hear an answer to that. If you want to make people feel positive about the hire answer that question with performance examples not...we'll have to wait and see or the timing called for it. Just thinking back on your own posts from the past certainly isn't reasurring when I recall you talking about how hobbie improved and deserves to have another shot but Smith should go. You remember, saying how he crushes QBs confidence by getting in their face on the sideline, and how there was no way a QB could possibly get it together with that type of treatment. Should we now not expect this type of treatment to happen to the entire offense if he is in charge? I also seem to recall you talking about how you have "no respect for people who call someone hero one year then crap the next" is that not exactly what you are doing here? Call for his head just a few months ago yet now jump on anyone who has that very opinion now?

[BULLheaded]

The fact of the matter is that there are people on this board that have said they will give up season tickets and withdraw financial support for athletics over this hire.  If you think is the definition of a real fan, then that is your own opinion.  My opinion is that real fans don't automatically withdraw support for their college team because they don't like the guy that was hired to be the OC.  That is chickenshit, bush league, and indicative of a petulant crybaby that the program doesn't need anyways.

I agree completely that this course of action isn't appropriate. I don't necessarily agree that it means they are not real fans. If they honestly think they are doing something for the benefit of the program (as warped as it may be) then they are doing what they think is right. Don't forget how much people on this board SUPPORTED protesting the basketball games in order to axe Seth. I didn't hear this outcry back then yet it's the same thing.

[Brad]

This just in:

We have found someone interested in the newly available Bulls tickets. please contact:

Mr. R. Smith

c/o USF Football

4202 E. Fowler Avenue

Tampa, FL 33620

[TripleB]

This just in:

We have found someone interested in the newly available Bulls tickets. please contact:

Mr. R. Smith

c/o USF Football

4202 E. Fowler Avenue

Tampa, FL 33620

You need to add ATH100 on there or they'll return to sender .......   8)

[S p e n c e]

The fact of the matter is that there are people on this board that have said they will give up season tickets and withdraw financial support for athletics over this hire.  If you think is the definition of a real fan, then that is your own opinion.  My opinion is that real fans don't automatically withdraw support for their college team because they don't like the guy that was hired to be the OC.  That is chickenshit, bush league, and indicative of a petulant crybaby that the program doesn't need anyways.

Mike you saying i'm not a "real fan" because mentioned the possibility not renewing season tickets in protest if you feel if is your only way to show displeasure with perfomance or coaching, whatever.  That statement is about as stupid as someone saying you are not a "real fan" because you left and went to LSU.  Or you are not a "real fan" because you arent an alumni.  Or you are not a "real fan" because you dont travel to every road game.  

It is moronic.  I support the team in the best way I know how, just as everyone else does, and if I happen to make a decision that you dont agree with it doesnt mean you are a better fan than I am, that is just idiotic.  

And Bien thanks for the dance, but watch the hand next time will ya.

[Bullpride08]

Let me be more precise then since Mr bien didn't quite grasp what mr bullheaded said. I don't see a "calling out" of a person but a disdain for a DECISION a person made. Can you not really see a difference? There are many people I admire and respect in this world but there is very little chance that I agree with every decision they make. In THIS particular case I see alot of disdain for a PARTICULAR choice that Leavitt made. To make it even simpler how is this:

Coach------------------------> no disdain

decision made by coach-----> disdain

Maybe you see those as the same thing, if so it obviously explains why you can't have a disagreement with someone without resorting to calling them ignorant.

Actually bien why don't you take a look at my posts and you'll see I've only commented on a couple points you made. The first was actually agreeing with you on the possibility that due to the timing this may have been necessary with the caveat that I don't understand why this wouldn't be a temporary decision if that were the case. Second, was taking what you said about leavitt not willing to look at anyone no matter how talented for the position and that we should just expect someone who will run what he wants as the major critera for the hire, I appologize if I find that disturbing and you don't. Lastly, I did call YOU out (not the coach) on the infuriating way you throw out the "ignorant" card if you disagree with someone. You say my name is suiting, I don't disagree with that but don't turn around and call me arogant when it is you who resorts to the name calling if disagreed with. Now on a final note, I did ask you earlier what you feel smith has done to earn this promotion and have yet to hear an answer to that. If you want to make people feel positive about the hire answer that question with performance examples not...we'll have to wait and see or the timing called for it. Just thinking back on your own posts from the past certainly isn't reasurring when I recall you talking about how hobbie improved and deserves to have another shot but Smith should go. You remember, saying how he crushes QBs confidence by getting in their face on the sideline, and how there was no way a QB could possibly get it together with that type of treatment. Should we now not expect this type of treatment to happen to the entire offense if he is in charge? I also seem to recall you talking about how you have "no respect for people who call someone hero one year then crap the next" is that not exactly what you are doing here? Call for his head just a few months ago yet now jump on anyone who has that very opinion now?

Bullheaded, I'll make two comments and then let this die.

The first, your admission that some have 'disdain' regarding the hire, but not the person making the hire is highly illogical and doesn't presume the obvious where some are actually calling for Leavitt's job, or questioning his logic as a coach.   If you do not like the hire then that's fine, but 'not liking' or approving of the hire is quite different for having 'disdain' for it.  However my issue has never really been with you just the fact you feel compelled to come down on my posts, and I've tried to bring some reality back into the mix as opposed to the factless reasoning many are giving for their scorn.

I have no problem with people not loving this hire, I don't love this hire, but those individuals also need to understand the context by which it was made and maybe some of the 'disdain' would subside, or it would simply soften into 'displeasure'.  

I don't want anyone to feel positive about this hire, or about this program.  My feelings are my feelings which is why I rarely post them on this board or website anymore because I find there are a few on this board that are all to willing and interested in squashing any and all positive information or opinions about USF because it doesn't ally with their cause.  All I wanted to do was try and provide some facts to help create some cogent discussions, and realism regarding the issue so people aren't flying off the handle, half-cocked, making rash judgements and individual criticisms about the hire or decision by their HC.  Everytime I post about it however i am encountered with a rash of criticism.  Go back and read my posts.  Look at my initial post where I provided three lines and ended with "Ignorant rants."  Read some of the posts above, and tell me you don't see some 'ignorant rants'.  Ignorance doesn't have to be derogatory, it just means they lack facts or the proper information yet presume away.

But I regress, because as always as soon as I do someone posts something like "What a joke of a hire."

[smazza]

spence hit it on the head

why should someone support a program they don't agree with?

"if you remain silent when you should speak you will stand for anything"

the program is going in the wrong direction