Mobile QBs

[Bull94]

There are many here who feel the same as you. However, as also the case here, many prematurely anoint the next savior for USF (typically QB) before they've had sufficient time to see the player perform.  As a result, many of those same folks are hard tied to their initial opinion and continue their support regardless whether the evidence does not support their conclusions.

Wear it as a badge of honor, my friend.  When I attended open practices last year, I reported here that Q. Flowers was not the high-speed QB that many were saying or hoping for as USF's new savior.  The comments I received were the typical semi-disparaging remarks from folks that could not handle being told something different than what they wanted to hear.

Funny seeing how many folks here now appear to be changing their opinion about both Taggart and Flowers.

You know all about that don't you? As I recall you were one of the loudest on Greg Auman's blog calling for BJ Daniels to be benched or switch positions so we could get the next great thing, Matt Floyd, on the field. How did that work for you?

[Paisa el Toro]

Flowers is the best we have this season. He's shown improvement. The play calling hasn't helped him. Let's see if he starts at QB next season. Thread summed up in less five sentences. You're welcome.

[SoTampaBull]

You know all about that don't you? As I recall you were one of the loudest on Greg Auman's blog calling for BJ Daniels to be benched or switch positions so we could get the next great thing, Matt Floyd, on the field. How did that work for you?

Well, your memory is for the most part semi-correct; however, a trip down memory lane is needed to put my/our observations into proper perspective.

First off, all of us were definitely on-board and excited about Daniels when he really emerged in 2009. As you recall, Daniels enjoyed a fairly good "second" freshman year while throwing for nearly 2.000 yds and rushed for nearly 800 yds while leading Bulls to a 8-5 record. However, some of his down sides began to emerge in his sophomore year when his TDs passes per game dropped, and he had more INTs than TD passes and his rushing yardage dropped by about 500 yds.  Although, while the Bulls went 8-5 in 2010, I believe it was the majority opinion that USF appeared to be stalled at 8-wins, and the feeling was that it was either Leavitt and/or Daniels that had peaked.  Granted, we would kill for that 8-wins now, but back then, USF's football program was on the rise, and expectations were much higher than they are now.

As his career progressed from there, wins started to decline and you'll recall that USF went 5-7 in 2011 and then went to 3-9 in 2012.  So, yes, some of us started to question the decisions to stay put with the status quo. However, that assessment was not our initial observation on Daniels, but came about when Daniels was having his pedestrian sophomore year followed by two losing seasons when everyone believed a higher bar was very reachable for USF's football program.

Lastly, some of our blog posts were also done as blog shtick just to get a rise out of the now deceased Steve O'Neal - who was, btw, a friend of mine, and someone that I'd tailgate with and sit with to watch USF home games.  We had those long-running blog battles mainly for blog shtick just to add some spice to that blog.  Yes, we disagreed on several things - well, make that, many things, but we engaged in our blog battles primarily for entertainment purposes.  Oh yeah, and a few of us purposely disparaged Daniels' play just to irritate BradentonBull because BradBull was such a huge Daniels fan and generally sided with O'Neal on the blog. I'm sure that BradentonBull thought we were a bunch of jerks, but much of what we did was again, blog shtick just to mess with people.  

I no longer do that stuff, as people take these blog debates personally.  So, I no longer purposely try to stir the pot - but obviously, I still have that ability when I'm not even trying.    

[Bull-Hornz]

Flowers is the best we have this season. He's shown improvement. The play calling hasn't helped him. Let's see if he starts at QB next season. Thread summed up in less five sentences. You're welcome.

Given up on the season.

Your post summed up 5 words but that's fine though many of us are there already and it's hard to blame ya.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Bull-Hornz

[Bull-Hornz]

SMU's QBR was just over 30 last year. He completed less than 55% of his passes and he threw 3 TDs compared to 5 picks. oh and he is a redshirt junior. 2 years older than Flowers. and get this he is only 6 ' tall. funny how nobody thought he was all world last year when he played us and only put up 13 on our terrible defense.

So what youre saying is tank this season in hopes that next season, QF might be able to back up AW (next season). Of course that is assuming that bc we tank this season for QF, CWT is not fired and AW stays here even if CWT is fired...interesting take.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Bull-Hornz

[Bull94]

Well, your memory is for the most part semi-correct; however, a trip down memory lane is needed to put my/our observations into proper perspective.

First off, all of us were definitely on-board and excited about Daniels when he really emerged in 2009. As you recall, Daniels enjoyed a fairly good "second" freshman year while throwing for nearly 2.000 yds and rushed for nearly 800 yds while leading Bulls to a 8-5 record. However, some of his down sides began to emerge in his sophomore year when his TDs passes per game dropped, and he had more INTs than TD passes and his rushing yardage dropped by about 500 yds.  Although, while the Bulls went 8-5 in 2010, I believe it was the majority opinion that USF appeared to be stalled at 8-wins, and the feeling was that it was either Leavitt and/or Daniels that had peaked.  Granted, we would kill for that 8-wins now, but back then, USF's football program was on the rise, and expectations were much higher than they are now.

As his career progressed from there, wins started to decline and you'll recall that USF went 5-7 in 2011 and then went to 3-9 in 2012.  So, yes, some of us started to question the decisions to stay put with the status quo. However, that assessment was not our initial observation on Daniels, but came about when Daniels was having his pedestrian sophomore year followed by two losing seasons when everyone believed a higher bar was very reachable for USF's football program.

Lastly, some of our blog posts were also done as blog shtick just to get a rise out of the now deceased Steve O'Neal - who was, btw, a friend of mine, and someone that I'd tailgate with and sit with to watch USF home games.  We had those long-running blog battles mainly for blog shtick just to add some spice to that blog.  Yes, we disagreed on several things - well, make that, many things, but we engaged in our blog battles primarily for entertainment purposes.  Oh yeah, and a few of us purposely disparaged Daniels' play just to irritate BradentonBull because BradBull was such a huge Daniels fan and generally sided with O'Neal on the blog. I'm sure that BradentonBull thought we were a bunch of jerks, but much of what we did was again, blog shtick just to mess with people.  

I no longer do that stuff, as people take these blog debates personally.  So, I no longer purposely try to stir the pot - but obviously, I still have that ability when I'm not even trying.    

sure it was all just for fun.....

 

you constantly bashed BJ daniels, said he was a glorified running back, and wanted Floyd to start over him because he was  "real" QB.....

 

again how did that work out for you?

[Bull94]

So what youre saying is tank this season in hopes that next season, QF might be able to back up AW (next season). Of course that is assuming that bc we tank this season for QF, CWT is not fired and AW stays here even if CWT is fired...interesting take.

no what I'm saying is that the QB you are slobbering over had the same rating on your beloved QBR last year that Flowers has through 4 games this year and that Flowers is 2 years younger.

[USFbulls24]

I am watching the SMU-Houston game. Both teams feature dynamic running QBs.  They both seem pretty dynamic and to be true playmakers. 

I have been impressed with Flowers' escapability when he does drop back, but have not been impressed with his playmaking or running ability. 

Is it our offense or is he really not a great playmaker or am I missing something?

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Flowers has done well with erratic snaps (hopefully that skill is less needed as the year wears on), and he's been elusive in avoiding sacks.  But as much has been made of QF as being more of a runner (true), both the QBs in this game seem faster, better in the open field and better body control.  Neither are pocket passers, but seem to throw better than Flowers.  We're clearly behind here (granted, QF has fewer starts than both, but maybe not by more than a year).

I didn't watch the game, but I have watched both teams this year in previous weeks. Not saying Quinton is a better play maker than either one of their QBs, but those defenses against HOU and SMU have to respect the pass which opens up the field and creates a heck of a lot more opportunity to make a play with their legs. They're not dealing with 8-10 defensive players within 7 yards of the LOS every play like Quinton is. Their coaches are in the business of helping their play makers, not making it more difficult on them (obviously I really don't feel like Taggart is trying to make it more difficult on our guys, but it sure does seem like it sometimes). 

[USFbulls24]

Well, your memory is for the most part semi-correct; however, a trip down memory lane is needed to put my/our observations into proper perspective.

First off, all of us were definitely on-board and excited about Daniels when he really emerged in 2009. As you recall, Daniels enjoyed a fairly good "second" freshman year while throwing for nearly 2.000 yds and rushed for nearly 800 yds while leading Bulls to a 8-5 record. However, some of his down sides began to emerge in his sophomore year when his TDs passes per game dropped, and he had more INTs than TD passes and his rushing yardage dropped by about 500 yds.  Although, while the Bulls went 8-5 in 2010, I believe it was the majority opinion that USF appeared to be stalled at 8-wins, and the feeling was that it was either Leavitt and/or Daniels that had peaked.  Granted, we would kill for that 8-wins now, but back then, USF's football program was on the rise, and expectations were much higher than they are now.

As his career progressed from there, wins started to decline and you'll recall that USF went 5-7 in 2011 and then went to 3-9 in 2012.  So, yes, some of us started to question the decisions to stay put with the status quo. However, that assessment was not our initial observation on Daniels, but came about when Daniels was having his pedestrian sophomore year followed by two losing seasons when everyone believed a higher bar was very reachable for USF's football program.

Lastly, some of our blog posts were also done as blog shtick just to get a rise out of the now deceased Steve O'Neal - who was, btw, a friend of mine, and someone that I'd tailgate with and sit with to watch USF home games.  We had those long-running blog battles mainly for blog shtick just to add some spice to that blog.  Yes, we disagreed on several things - well, make that, many things, but we engaged in our blog battles primarily for entertainment purposes.  Oh yeah, and a few of us purposely disparaged Daniels' play just to irritate BradentonBull because BradBull was such a huge Daniels fan and generally sided with O'Neal on the blog. I'm sure that BradentonBull thought we were a bunch of jerks, but much of what we did was again, blog shtick just to mess with people.  

I no longer do that stuff, as people take these blog debates personally.  So, I no longer purposely try to stir the pot - but obviously, I still have that ability when I'm not even trying.    

We saw what happened when Daniels left or went down with injury. When he played we had no problem scoring. We just couldn't stop anyone. I wasn't on the boards then, but anyone that was calling for him to be benched must've been lost.

[usfgrad84]

The question posed at the start of the thread is Flowers truly a good running QB?  Not saying that he cannot become as good an overall QB as the SMU kid has started to develop into.  The SMU QB is also being used in a system better suited to his abilities this year, rather than being thrown into the run and shoot system under the previous coach.  Funny how adapting a system to what the player is good at makes a difference in performance. 

We just have not really seen much play making ability out of Flowers as we have in a lot of other offenses that feature running QBs.  This brings me to my next point/question.  As strictly a downfield passer, in his limited appearances, Bench seems to be a better passer (let's not judge him on one 4th quarter drive where he is being pounded into the ground after every throw in desperation time.  From what we have seen it looks like he hits the mid range passes more crisply, but really both QBs attempts have been limited so we don't know).  If we refuse to use a running QB as a running QB and play to his strengths how do we actually judge him?  On his ability to hand off?  He has looked horrible in read option reads.  If Taggart is afraid to let him throw the ball and keep a more balanced attack, in my opinion that hurts the run game and he therefore becomes a liability to the offense.  

If he is a playmaker, then let him make plays either with his feet or by throwing the ball.  At least a little, during the game when it counts.  Not when we are 3 TDs behind.  the only comments i have heard Taggart make about his running ability is when he said "your feet are your friends".  In other words, if you don't have an open receiver pull it down quickly and run. How about acting like a QB and look downfield rather than just be a QB.   

 

I put all of this on Taggart either being afraid to let him play or not truly having the best QB (not athlete, QB) playing.  If the kid is truly a playmaker, let him make some plays and try to win a game for us.  Otherwise we are just running plays for the sake of running plays.  Let's try to play to win a game for once.