My Plan to Save USF...

[Plantation Pete]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

a little overly dramatic.

we don't stand on some mythical precipice. we made a bad hire. that's it. time to cut our losses and try again.

hiring anyone is a risk whether or not they have previous head coaching experince. those same previous head coaches that can assemble a staff usually assemble that staff with a bunch of retreads.

I've shown over and over again that your opinion that hiring an experienced head coach has little to do wtih success. 14 of current top 25 programs hired a coordinator with no head coaching experince. 70% of last place teams in BCS conferences hired head coaches with previous experience. you can't back up your claim.

oh and as for your last statement, we have never had a hire like that. in case you forgot Jim Leavitt never built a successful program before he came here. he had no head coaching experience.

Again, perception is reality in college football. Currently, what is the perception of USF Football across the country? What will it be if Holtz is canned and Woolard make another bad hire?

[Plantation Pete]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

A simple "I really have no clue what defines highly successful" would have sufficed there.

Trip...

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I'm guessing you are fairly young, inexperienced and probably a computer geek. I picture you as someone who works out of a cubicle and has never had to make executive decisions in business.

[Bullshiznitz]

Didn't Brian Kelly win 1-AA national titles with some small school before he was at Central Michigan?

Division II, not 1-AA ... maybe we should re-visit the light years apart discussion at this point.

Ok, thanks for the correction. No need to revisit that. The results of Kelly's work speak for themselves. What's Notre Dame ranked now?

Say what some of you will about Kelly, but the guy is a hell of a coach.

I think the only point that's trying to be made is that sometimes these kind of hires work out, sometimes they don't. Kelly and Holtz were both successful at lower levels ... Kelly's been able to also succeed at a higher level. Holtz, not so much.

One point is Kelly had a longer track record before he was hired at Cincy. He was highly successful at two different schools at two levels. Then he added Cincy to the resume to hit the trifecta, so Notre Dame had measured risk in him. Holtz had moderate success at one school with a 1-4 bowl record.

If you're an AD at a FBS school which resume would your hire?

Quit being an idiot .... Kelly wasn't "highly successful" at Central Michigan ... and Skip was 1-3 in bowl games, with the one win coming against Boise State and the three losses were us, and losing to two SEC teams by a total of 9 points. Kelly never even coached in a bowl game before Cincy.

Huh?? Going from worst to first in three seasons is not highly successful??

LOL .... Worst to first, with his biggest ooc win being over Southeast Missouri St is highly successful but worst to first, with TWO first place finishes and ooc wins over Boise State, WVU and Virginia Tech isn't ... Keep talking ... There may be some that aren't quite convinced yet you're nothing but an assclown troll.

Let me see if I can dumb this down enough so even you can understand, Trip. I assumed you guys had the cognitive skills to connect the dots, but you know what they say when we assume.

The future of USF Football is in a very, very precarious situation caused by an AD that has never previously managed a football program at any time during his career. His actions has placed the program on the precipice of a cliff and another step in the wrong direction will send the program over the brink to its death. If he keeps Holtz it will most likely be the step into the abyss, but if he relieves him and makes the wrong hire it will have the same result. So...The program needs to reduce the risk of hiring the wrong guy.

Some say hire a young (read inexperienced here) coordinator with no head coaching experience. This would be the highest risk hire. The odds are against a coordinator suceeding even in an established football school but even greater at USF where the program is still in its infancy and under Holtz has greatly regressed.

The biggest challenge for a young coordinator is hiring a great staff. An experienced HC usually chooses from assistants he knows and has worked with in the past. He knows who works well with him and who he believes to be a good coach and recruiter. A young coordinator simply doesn't have this advantage. Bill Snyder wasn't a young guy when Kansas State hired him, but he'd been around the block a few times and he assembled a world class staff.

The lowest risk hire would be a veteran HC who has been successful at smaller programs for more than 3 or 4 years and hopefully at more than one school. A coach like Brian Kelly who was highly successful at Grand Valley State for 13 years means stability and depth of experience. It also means he has worked with a multitude of assistant coaches he knows personally and worked with that have moved up the ranks to larger schools over the years and expanded their experiences. I have no doubt when he was hired at Cincy his greatest accomplishment was assembling a great staff.

The absolute best hire would be a coach that built a succesful program from nothing and stayed loyal even though other schools offered millions of dollars over the years to lure him away, but we all know a guy like that is almost non-existent. USF had that guy who captured lighting in a bottle, but Doug Woolard fixed that. And you know what is said about lightning striking twice.

I think I need to give up my user name, because its become quit obvious that you need to adopt it since thats all you shovel. You are going to "dumb" it down for us? Really? Well congrats, stating that Kelly was able to build a great staff at Cincy because of coaching connections from coaching at a Div II school is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board, and thats saying alot.

You've been provided example after example as to why you assertions are utter shiznitz, yet have provided virtually no proof to back them. As Trip said, a simple "I have no idea what I'm talking about" will suffice.

[Bull94]

Again, perception is reality in college football. Currently, what is the perception of USF Football across the country? What will it be if Holtz is canned and Woolard make another bad hire?

the preception is that we potentially made a bad hire and the coach is on the hot seat. it has happened at every single school in the country. if Holtz is canned and Woolard makes another bad hire then he will be gone too. there really isn't anything more to it than that.

[Plantation Pete]

I think I need to give up my user name, because its become quit obvious that you need to adopt it since thats all you shovel. You are going to "dumb" it down for us? Really? Well congrats, stating that Kelly was able to build a great staff at Cincy because of coaching connections from coaching at a Div II school is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board, and thats saying alot.

You've been provided example after example as to why you assertions are utter shiznitz, yet have provided virtually no proof to back them. As Trip said, a simple "I have no idea what I'm talking about" will suffice.

You sound like slick's 9 year old that says everyone is dumb and stupid because they don't understand simple logic gained from experience.

Mike Elston...

Elston helped UC sign a 22-member class only 65 days after Brian Kelly accepted the UC job in 2007 and was instrumental in coordinating a 24-member class in 2008, and a 28-member recruiting class in 2009.

In his three seasons with Central Michigan, Elston played many roles with the Chippewas, working his way up to special teams coordinator and linebackers coach in year three.

http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/elston_mike00.html

Charley Molnar...

Charley Molnar, who has compiled 23 seasons of experience coaching on offense, mentors the wide receivers while also serving in the role of passing game coordinator for the Bearcats.

Molnar spent the 2006 campaign in a similar role under Kelly at Central Michigan, aiding the passing game and tutoring the team's wide receivers and quarterbacks.

http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/080207aaa.html

Keith Gilmore...

Keith Gilmore enters his sixth year as a part of Brian Kelly's staff and serves as assistant head coach and defensive line coach for the Bearcats. Gilmore has a wide range of coaching experience, having served with eight different programs.

The 22-year coaching veteran mentored a pair of defensive linemen to all-league honors in his only season at Central Michigan.

http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/080307aaa.html

Greg Forest...

Greg Forest continues his 17-year relationship with the head coach as quarterbacks coach at Cincinnati.

Forest spent the 2006 campaign wearing the tag of assistant head coach to Kelly. He served three seasons at Central Michigan spending one season each with the receivers, running backs, and tight ends.

Forest worked primarily with the Chippewa running backs in 2005, molding a 1,000-yard rusher who went on to earn freshman all-America status from Sporting News and Rivals.com.

A native of Columbus, Ohio, Forest coached wide receivers for 11 years at Grand Valley State, mentoring the top three receivers in GVSU history. All three garnered all-America recognition.

http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/080907aaa.html

Earnest Jones...

Ernest Jones is entering his third season on Brian Kelly's staff. Jones' primary responsibility is instructing the Bearcats' running backs.

In 2006, he helped develop a Central Michigan rushing attack that averaged 127.9 yards per game. Jones moved to the offensive side after serving as the cornerbacks coach in 2005.

http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/081507aac.html

[Triple B]

A simple "I really have no clue what defines highly successful" would have sufficed there.

Trip...

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I'm guessing you are fairly young, inexperienced and probably a computer geek.

****, you must be psychic .... you left out devilishly handsome, though.

I picture you as someone who works out of a cubicle and has never had to make executive decisions in business.

And you must also be a politician considering you either ignore subjects you can't answer or reply with 6 paragraphs of non related gibberish ...

[Bullshiznitz]

I think I need to give up my user name, because its become quit obvious that you need to adopt it since thats all you shovel. You are going to "dumb" it down for us? Really? Well congrats, stating that Kelly was able to build a great staff at Cincy because of coaching connections from coaching at a Div II school is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board, and thats saying alot.

You've been provided example after example as to why you assertions are utter shiznitz, yet have provided virtually no proof to back them. As Trip said, a simple "I have no idea what I'm talking about" will suffice.

You sound like slick's 9 year old that says everyone is dumb and stupid because they don't understand simple logic gained from experience.

Mike Elston...

Elston helped UC sign a 22-member class only 65 days after Brian Kelly accepted the UC job in 2007 and was instrumental in coordinating a 24-member class in 2008, and a 28-member recruiting class in 2009.

In his three seasons with Central Michigan, Elston played many roles with the Chippewas, working his way up to special teams coordinator and linebackers coach in year three.

http://www.gobearcat...ton_mike00.html

Charley Molnar...

Charley Molnar, who has compiled 23 seasons of experience coaching on offense, mentors the wide receivers while also serving in the role of passing game coordinator for the Bearcats.

Molnar spent the 2006 campaign in a similar role under Kelly at Central Michigan, aiding the passing game and tutoring the team's wide receivers and quarterbacks.

http://www.gobearcat.../080207aaa.html

Keith Gilmore...

Keith Gilmore enters his sixth year as a part of Brian Kelly's staff and serves as assistant head coach and defensive line coach for the Bearcats. Gilmore has a wide range of coaching experience, having served with eight different programs.

The 22-year coaching veteran mentored a pair of defensive linemen to all-league honors in his only season at Central Michigan.

http://www.gobearcat.../080307aaa.html

Greg Forest...

Greg Forest continues his 17-year relationship with the head coach as quarterbacks coach at Cincinnati.

Forest spent the 2006 campaign wearing the tag of assistant head coach to Kelly. He served three seasons at Central Michigan spending one season each with the receivers, running backs, and tight ends.

Forest worked primarily with the Chippewa running backs in 2005, molding a 1,000-yard rusher who went on to earn freshman all-America status from Sporting News and Rivals.com.

A native of Columbus, Ohio, Forest coached wide receivers for 11 years at Grand Valley State, mentoring the top three receivers in GVSU history. All three garnered all-America recognition.

http://www.gobearcat.../080907aaa.html

Earnest Jones...

Ernest Jones is entering his third season on Brian Kelly's staff. Jones' primary responsibility is instructing the Bearcats' running backs.

In 2006, he helped develop a Central Michigan rushing attack that averaged 127.9 yards per game. Jones moved to the offensive side after serving as the cornerbacks coach in 2005.

http://www.gobearcat.../081507aac.html

This gets laughably better. So your proof that Kelly's experience allowed him to build a great staff at Cincy, is simply him bringing most the staff he had at Central Michigan with him. Again, just further proof of the similarities with Holtz. Thanks for proving my point.

It would be a whole lot easier for you just to admit defeat rather than continue to dig yourself this hole. Again, if you want to continue to beat this drum of hiring successful mid-major head coaches, then please provide some proof. Not only that, stop moving the bar to now using Division II records as some type of proof. Anyone with even an iota of football sense see's how absurdly ridiculous that is.

[Plantation Pete]

I think I need to give up my user name, because its become quit obvious that you need to adopt it since thats all you shovel. You are going to "dumb" it down for us? Really? Well congrats, stating that Kelly was able to build a great staff at Cincy because of coaching connections from coaching at a Div II school is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board, and thats saying alot.

You've been provided example after example as to why you assertions are utter shiznitz, yet have provided virtually no proof to back them. As Trip said, a simple "I have no idea what I'm talking about" will suffice.

You sound like slick's 9 year old that says everyone is dumb and stupid because they don't understand simple logic gained from experience.

Mike Elston...

Elston helped UC sign a 22-member class only 65 days after Brian Kelly accepted the UC job in 2007 and was instrumental in coordinating a 24-member class in 2008, and a 28-member recruiting class in 2009.

In his three seasons with Central Michigan, Elston played many roles with the Chippewas, working his way up to special teams coordinator and linebackers coach in year three.

http://www.gobearcat...ton_mike00.html

Charley Molnar...

Charley Molnar, who has compiled 23 seasons of experience coaching on offense, mentors the wide receivers while also serving in the role of passing game coordinator for the Bearcats.

Molnar spent the 2006 campaign in a similar role under Kelly at Central Michigan, aiding the passing game and tutoring the team's wide receivers and quarterbacks.

http://www.gobearcat.../080207aaa.html

Keith Gilmore...

Keith Gilmore enters his sixth year as a part of Brian Kelly's staff and serves as assistant head coach and defensive line coach for the Bearcats. Gilmore has a wide range of coaching experience, having served with eight different programs.

The 22-year coaching veteran mentored a pair of defensive linemen to all-league honors in his only season at Central Michigan.

http://www.gobearcat.../080307aaa.html

Greg Forest...

Greg Forest continues his 17-year relationship with the head coach as quarterbacks coach at Cincinnati.

Forest spent the 2006 campaign wearing the tag of assistant head coach to Kelly. He served three seasons at Central Michigan spending one season each with the receivers, running backs, and tight ends.

Forest worked primarily with the Chippewa running backs in 2005, molding a 1,000-yard rusher who went on to earn freshman all-America status from Sporting News and Rivals.com.

A native of Columbus, Ohio, Forest coached wide receivers for 11 years at Grand Valley State, mentoring the top three receivers in GVSU history. All three garnered all-America recognition.

http://www.gobearcat.../080907aaa.html

Earnest Jones...

Ernest Jones is entering his third season on Brian Kelly's staff. Jones' primary responsibility is instructing the Bearcats' running backs.

In 2006, he helped develop a Central Michigan rushing attack that averaged 127.9 yards per game. Jones moved to the offensive side after serving as the cornerbacks coach in 2005.

http://www.gobearcat.../081507aac.html

This gets laughably better. So your proof that Kelly's experience allowed him to build a great staff at Cincy, is simply him bringing most the staff he had at Central Michigan with him. Again, just further proof of the similarities with Holtz. Thanks for proving my point.

It would be a whole lot easier for you just to admit defeat rather than continue to dig yourself this hole. Again, if you want to continue to beat this drum of hiring successful mid-major head coaches, then please provide some proof. Not only that, stop moving the bar to now using Division II records as some type of proof. Anyone with even an iota of football sense see's how absurdly ridiculous that is.

Obviously reading comprehension is not your best suit.

Ron White was dead on when he stated, "You just can't fix stupid."