Just spoke to CJL

[SANJAY]

Ha!  No, but just talking to him for a couple minutes made me want to go tackle somebody.  He was very sincere when he was talking about usf and this game and tampa.  Of course I could have just been starstruck. 

[navigator man]

Well  the reality was that unless the ACC agreed to allow USF to play the game it would not have happened. They have a signed contract giving them those dates so any changes without their approval would have led to a lawsuit.

So USF got as much as it could by now geting major tenant status and allowing them to have access to December dates. Some think that is no big gain because the ACC game was moving to Charlotte but the reality is that Tampa was going to bid again in 2012 and 13 and even if they didnt get it, the ACC would have played Tampa to get better deal from Charlotte.

As it stands now USF gets moved up in their power to get dates at RJS and removes the ACC from coming into the city. Now if USF gets better financial deals from the long term deal then its a big win for USF.

We all want an OCS, but the kind of OCS that USF would need to build cost major bucks and is NOT feasible in the next few years. Let our fan base grow and make sell outs at RJS become an everygame situation and an OCS would be more feasible.

Go Bullls!!!!!

other athletic facilities need to be updated first such as the baseball and softball fields.

[Bullpride08]

After getting his wings clipped recently with regard to recruiting and academic oversight, I for one am glad to see CJL collaborating with Genshaft and the administration on this matter.  He had reason to sulk. 

If it wasn't obvious to him already, I hope CJL realizes today that the University still has the football team's back.

Huh?  Whaaa?  Wings clipped?  Dude you've been reading to much Tribune.  CJL has not had his wings clipped, the academic oversight was never under his control?  Who told you such non-sense?  It was under Doug Woolard's control and he didn't want the responsibility or costs for the athletic department.  He's been moving for the transfer for years.  It accomplished a few things, first it was a way for the school to do the athletic department a solid, taking an enormous financial burden off the athletic side and moving it to the academic (University), second, it insured Doug didn't constantly have to monitor things to insure there was no identity of interest crisis, or hanky-panky; this does a better job of guaranteeing the proverbial 'chinese wall'.

The recruiting was not getting his wings clipped either.  In the past two years he has had 3 kids get rejected at the last minute by Admissions and/or NCAA Clearinghouse.  Leavitt was sick of finding this stuff out at the last minute during fall enrolloment, as was the Admissions Department.  Changes occurred, they do it at UCF and UF too, where an admissions review board looks at kids early and gives their feedback.  the logistics are still being worked out which was why the Justin Green thing went a little funky but this is no big deal.  Admissions has always been responsible for making admissions decisions on recruits and Leavitt and crew have absolutely no say in this.  This way there are no 11th hour surprises for Leavitt and the school- Jim can still sign kids if he wants to 'sign and place', and can handle recruits as he wishes. this advisory board is set-up to give the staff guidance about likelihood of enrollment, and their concerns on particular recruits.  I believe the expectation of the staff was that Green would make it onto campus in the fall (Justin had been saying he was fully qualified for months) but the reality was quite different.  Therefore to motivate him to do the extra work they withdrew the LOI, at this point Green is not eligible and the staff wanted him in camp in the fall.  If the motivation works then the advisory board's role has been served.

****, it's no wonder people get the wrong impression when the Trib is spread dis-information and fans buy into the load of crap.

[smazza]

oversight over leavitt is great and he better get used to it

[smazza]

i spoke to pete carroll sunday and he is expecting alot of incoming freshmen to contribute

he thought usf  has a fine program

[bulls96go]

i spoke to pete carroll sunday and he is expecting alot of incoming freshmen to contribute

he thought usf  has a fine program

does he want to play us?

[bulls96go]

After getting his wings clipped recently with regard to recruiting and academic oversight, I for one am glad to see CJL collaborating with Genshaft and the administration on this matter.  He had reason to sulk. 

If it wasn't obvious to him already, I hope CJL realizes today that the University still has the football team's back.

Huh?  Whaaa?  Wings clipped?  Dude you've been reading to much Tribune.  CJL has not had his wings clipped, the academic oversight was never under his control?  Who told you such non-sense?  It was under Doug Woolard's control and he didn't want the responsibility or costs for the athletic department.  He's been moving for the transfer for years.  It accomplished a few things, first it was a way for the school to do the athletic department a solid, taking an enormous financial burden off the athletic side and moving it to the academic (University), second, it insured Doug didn't constantly have to monitor things to insure there was no identity of interest crisis, or hanky-panky; this does a better job of guaranteeing the proverbial 'chinese wall'.

The recruiting was not getting his wings clipped either.  In the past two years he has had 3 kids get rejected at the last minute by Admissions and/or NCAA Clearinghouse.  Leavitt was sick of finding this stuff out at the last minute during fall enrolloment, as was the Admissions Department.  Changes occurred, they do it at UCF and UF too, where an admissions review board looks at kids early and gives their feedback.  the logistics are still being worked out which was why the Justin Green thing went a little funky but this is no big deal.  Admissions has always been responsible for making admissions decisions on recruits and Leavitt and crew have absolutely no say in this.  This way there are no 11th hour surprises for Leavitt and the school- Jim can still sign kids if he wants to 'sign and place', and can handle recruits as he wishes. this advisory board is set-up to give the staff guidance about likelihood of enrollment, and their concerns on particular recruits.  I believe the expectation of the staff was that Green would make it onto campus in the fall (Justin had been saying he was fully qualified for months) but the reality was quite different.  Therefore to motivate him to do the extra work they withdrew the LOI, at this point Green is not eligible and the staff wanted him in camp in the fall.  If the motivation works then the advisory board's role has been served.

****, it's no wonder people get the wrong impression when the Trib is spread dis-information and fans buy into the load of crap.

Great explanation.

Now if usf had put this explanation up on their web site noone would be confused and there would be no speculation.

[Bullpride08]

After getting his wings clipped recently with regard to recruiting and academic oversight, I for one am glad to see CJL collaborating with Genshaft and the administration on this matter.  He had reason to sulk. 

If it wasn't obvious to him already, I hope CJL realizes today that the University still has the football team's back.

Huh?  Whaaa?  Wings clipped?  Dude you've been reading to much Tribune.  CJL has not had his wings clipped, the academic oversight was never under his control?  Who told you such non-sense?  It was under Doug Woolard's control and he didn't want the responsibility or costs for the athletic department.  He's been moving for the transfer for years.  It accomplished a few things, first it was a way for the school to do the athletic department a solid, taking an enormous financial burden off the athletic side and moving it to the academic (University), second, it insured Doug didn't constantly have to monitor things to insure there was no identity of interest crisis, or hanky-panky; this does a better job of guaranteeing the proverbial 'chinese wall'.

The recruiting was not getting his wings clipped either.  In the past two years he has had 3 kids get rejected at the last minute by Admissions and/or NCAA Clearinghouse.  Leavitt was sick of finding this stuff out at the last minute during fall enrolloment, as was the Admissions Department.  Changes occurred, they do it at UCF and UF too, where an admissions review board looks at kids early and gives their feedback.  the logistics are still being worked out which was why the Justin Green thing went a little funky but this is no big deal.  Admissions has always been responsible for making admissions decisions on recruits and Leavitt and crew have absolutely no say in this.  This way there are no 11th hour surprises for Leavitt and the school- Jim can still sign kids if he wants to 'sign and place', and can handle recruits as he wishes. this advisory board is set-up to give the staff guidance about likelihood of enrollment, and their concerns on particular recruits.  I believe the expectation of the staff was that Green would make it onto campus in the fall (Justin had been saying he was fully qualified for months) but the reality was quite different.  Therefore to motivate him to do the extra work they withdrew the LOI, at this point Green is not eligible and the staff wanted him in camp in the fall.  If the motivation works then the advisory board's role has been served.

****, it's no wonder people get the wrong impression when the Trib is spread dis-information and fans buy into the load of crap.

Great explanation.

Now if usf had put this explanation up on their web site noone would be confused and there would be no speculation.

Not true.  This was a pretty perfunctory move, and done methodically over a period of time.  There is no reason to make this something that the general public needs to know.  Truthfully a move like this would be like Woolard explain to you he moved large donors offices into the next building, or transfered responsibilities to another department.  Honestly is it the public's right and job to scrutinize the mundane job.

No one is losing power, no one is losing over-sight.  The extent of the Tribune reporting this information should have stopped after they realized it was not in response to any issue, and it was not a loss of power for Leavitt and/or Woolard and a move they both endorsed.  After that was clearly and obviously confirmed then this was a moot point, sans the Tribune interjecting conjecture, opinion, hearsay, and controversy into the matter.  After the Tribune did that, which they've done on numerous occasions over the past three years...then yeah, sure maybe a presser needed to be released.  At this point I swear the Tribune would find a way to put a negative spin on the Athletic Director's lunch choice if he ordered out for a group at a meeting...

Can you read McMurphy's article on that 'Woolard ordered tuna fish, and steak sandwiches, but everyone knows the Deputy Comissioner is a Vegon, and putting relish on the sandwich is a Northeastern fau paux'....some times you can't win for lose and it's better to let it blow over when something this mundane is made bigger then it really is.

[Carolina_Bull]

After getting his wings clipped recently with regard to recruiting and academic oversight, I for one am glad to see CJL collaborating with Genshaft and the administration on this matter.  He had reason to sulk. 

If it wasn't obvious to him already, I hope CJL realizes today that the University still has the football team's back.

Huh?  Whaaa?  Wings clipped?  Dude you've been reading to much Tribune.  CJL has not had his wings clipped, the academic oversight was never under his control?  Who told you such non-sense?  It was under Doug Woolard's control and he didn't want the responsibility or costs for the athletic department.  He's been moving for the transfer for years.  It accomplished a few things, first it was a way for the school to do the athletic department a solid, taking an enormous financial burden off the athletic side and moving it to the academic (University), second, it insured Doug didn't constantly have to monitor things to insure there was no identity of interest crisis, or hanky-panky; this does a better job of guaranteeing the proverbial 'chinese wall'.

The recruiting was not getting his wings clipped either.  In the past two years he has had 3 kids get rejected at the last minute by Admissions and/or NCAA Clearinghouse.  Leavitt was sick of finding this stuff out at the last minute during fall enrolloment, as was the Admissions Department.  Changes occurred, they do it at UCF and UF too, where an admissions review board looks at kids early and gives their feedback.  the logistics are still being worked out which was why the Justin Green thing went a little funky but this is no big deal.  Admissions has always been responsible for making admissions decisions on recruits and Leavitt and crew have absolutely no say in this.  This way there are no 11th hour surprises for Leavitt and the school- Jim can still sign kids if he wants to 'sign and place', and can handle recruits as he wishes. this advisory board is set-up to give the staff guidance about likelihood of enrollment, and their concerns on particular recruits.  I believe the expectation of the staff was that Green would make it onto campus in the fall (Justin had been saying he was fully qualified for months) but the reality was quite different.  Therefore to motivate him to do the extra work they withdrew the LOI, at this point Green is not eligible and the staff wanted him in camp in the fall.  If the motivation works then the advisory board's role has been served.

****, it's no wonder people get the wrong impression when the Trib is spread dis-information and fans buy into the load of crap.

Great explanation.

Now if usf had put this explanation up on their web site noone would be confused and there would be no speculation.

Not true.  This was a pretty perfunctory move, and done methodically over a period of time.  There is no reason to make this something that the general public needs to know.  Truthfully a move like this would be like Woolard explain to you he moved large donors offices into the next building, or transfered responsibilities to another department.  Honestly is it the public's right and job to scrutinize the mundane job.

No one is losing power, no one is losing over-sight.  The extent of the Tribune reporting this information should have stopped after they realized it was not in response to any issue, and it was not a loss of power for Leavitt and/or Woolard and a move they both endorsed.  After that was clearly and obviously confirmed then this was a moot point, sans the Tribune interjecting conjecture, opinion, hearsay, and controversy into the matter.  After the Tribune did that, which they've done on numerous occasions over the past three years...then yeah, sure maybe a presser needed to be released.  At this point I swear the Tribune would find a way to put a negative spin on the Athletic Director's lunch choice if he ordered out for a group at a meeting...

Can you read McMurphy's article on that 'Woolard ordered tuna fish, and steak sandwiches, but everyone knows the Deputy Comissioner is a Vegon, and putting relish on the sandwich is a Northeastern fau paux'....some times you can't win for lose and it's better to let it blow over when something this mundane is made bigger then it really is.

Bulls96,

SBien's explanation would never grace USF's athletic website because SBien is making it up.  He confuses what he wanted to have happen with what actually happened.

Here is the Trib article again:  http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/05/na-usf-takes-control-of-athlete-academics/

Here is the definition of perfunctory (SBien described this as a "pretty perfunctory" move):  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfunctory

If that's a perfunctory move, I need to go back to USF and get an English degree.

Anyway, here is a little item that, if it has credence, can only be described as absolutely "per-fu*k-tory":  http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/10/28-football-programs-70-basketball-programs-to-feel-wrath-of-ap/

After SBien lays another layer of slime on Brett McMurphy for his Trib article, I can't wait to see what he has to say about AOL's Brian Cook or me  :-*

[Bullpride08]

Carolina.

Why not do a bit of research into the subject instead of relying on hearsay and conjecture by two sides that have clearly not done any of their own.

1.  The move of academic oversight of athletics over to academics was proposed by Doug Woolard when he arrived at USF.  Well before any concerns of APR.  Secondly, how does moving academics truly affect APR?  Most of our APR issues, do I need to do the research for you or are you man enough to recognize it, are due to discontent football and basketball players transfering out.  And if this was purely an APR move, wouldn't it be more accurate to suggest the hoops team got it's 'wings clipped' instead of Leavitt since they've consistently had the lower GPA, and lower APR score?  Our APR is not that enormous of a concern for football, it's APR's have been consistently over 900, it's hoops with the sub- 900 APR that is more at risk, not football.

2.  What exactly has occurred that you state, incorrectly I might add, that Leavitt had his 'wings clipped'?  He still signed three players that are academically borderline recruits- as of today Engram, Bryant, Theo Wilson- and he clearly expects one to fall through since we currently have 22 roster spots for 23 players.  What has he 'stopped doing'...?   The academic admissions board is no different from what occurred earlier, but it was well documented that Leavitt was a bit miffed by the sudden denial by admissions of Charlton Sinclair, and Carlton Hill, the same happened for Kevin McCaskill the year before.  Leavitt was getting a bit sick of having kids get dropped at the last minute he thought were eligible or at least received that guidance on their recruiting visits and submission of transcripts during the recruiting process.  This Advisory Board now gives him a rubber stamp, but it doesn't exclude him from offering borderline recruits, Donnel Engram has a 2.4ish GPA and supposedly a 750, the core GPA is lower.  He still signed, Leavitt didn't get his 'wings clipped on that one'.http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/07/Sports/Steering_his_grandson.shtml

3.  Where in that article does it provide a direct quote from anyone in the Tribune article that there are real issues, and this was done to 'clip wings'.  You see Carolina you are reading and believing the Tribune's conjecture and opinions.  There is opinions in that article this move was motivated by that, but later in the article they contradict themselves explaining the move was contemplated years before.

The Tribune states, "Concerned over the weakening academic progress of its players, especially those in football and basketball, the university has recently revoked much of the discretion coaches had in recruiting athletes with poor grades and test scores."  HOWEVER, a quote from Wilcox said the following:  "Despite the urgency of those moves, Wilcox and other university leaders say they found no academic misconduct in the Athletic Department, nor did they suspect any. Rather, Wilcox said he grew alarmed that a number of academic advisers were teaching student-athletes."

Nowhere, anywhere has anyone from USF been quoted, or has the tribune received an 'off the record or cuff' quote from a University official that this move was related to 'weakening academic progress of it's players, especially those in football and basketball'...that was just a statement placed in the article with absolutely zero substantiation from anyone at USF, and used strictly the APR numbers as a basis DESPITE THE FACT APR numbers are solely related the retention, not academic standards...retention issues can arise for a myriad of issues not exclusive to academic issues.  Furthermore, Wilcox, who has a bit of clout at USF, is quoted as saying something completely to the contrary that it is 'identity of interest' and 'intergrity' concerns that could cause future problems that led to the change nearly 7 months ago.  A change I might add that most FL schools have already instituted, as well as many Universities around the nation, a fact that was correct by the Tribune.

The same ignorant article you cite then states, after saying these were 'urgent moves' clearly articulates that these changes were in the works as much as 7 months ago, and Woolard suggested them upon his arrival. 

"On Aug. 21, a note went out to the Athletic Department asking for a list of all of its employees to spot those who were teaching student-athletes.

That same day, Wilcox ordered that practice be stopped. On Aug. 24, employees in the Academic Enrichment Center learned that the university's academic side would take oversight of their operations."

Three days later, school started.

I mean how can in one sentence they state "Despite the urgency of these moves" and then a paragraph down clearly explain the wheels were in motion back in August, well before Moffitt.

I can go on, and on, and on to explain the inaccuracies and negative presumptions in the Tribune article.  But to help articulate further here is a Times article that cuts through the lies and insinuations and deals directly with the facts.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/access/1424590791.html?dids=1424590791:1424590791&FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Feb+6%2C+2008&author=GREG+AUMAN&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&edition=&startpage=5.C&desc=USF+SAYS+CHANGES+HELP+ACADEMICS

Here's a quote that is not living in my head Carolina.

USF changed its athletic oversight before the rise of its football team last fall, following a national trend of keeping university personnel in charge of athletes' academic supervision. Haworth reports to athletic director Doug Woolard, but she also answers to Glen Besterfield, associate dean of undergraduate studies.

"Doug had suggested it several years ago when he first arrived as something we needed to consider," Besterfield said.

Oh here's a novel idea from a journalist get numerous quotes from multiple sources and base your summation and opinions on the actual facts of the case not personal perceptions.  This plan was devised when Doug Woolard arrived- Again a factoid I explained earlier, this had nothing to do with a "Coach's wings getting clipped." 

Here's another one of my favorites.

The enrichment center, housed in the university's athletic center, employs about 50 tutors, academic coaches and class checkers. There are also several academic advisers who map out an athlete's academic support.

All of that used to report to the athletic director.

This came from the Tribune, but the Tribune was wrong because per Glen Besterfield, Doug still has some control and oversight, and they do report to him, he just does not possess total control anymore, big difference- then someone 'yanking control away'.

Oh, and want to take a guess what the cost of 50 tutors, academic coaches, class checkers, and Associate Athletic Director to over see it all, is to USF Athletics?  That cost is no longer the financial burden of the Athletic Department.  If that just amounted to $500k in budgetary costs, it freed up $500k of costs from Athletic Department and moved it to the University and in Genshaft's budget.  How again is this a bad thing?

Lastly, and this is one aspect both the Tribune and Times both agreed on.

From the Times Article:

The school believes its standards are in line with other members of the Big East Conference and that changes made before this school year have strengthened its oversight.

From the Tribune:

USF is not alone in making these changes. Other colleges and universities have made them during the past few years. "It makes sense academically, as well as ethically," said Richard Lapchick, who directs the sports business program at the University of Central Florida.

This was basically a perfunctory process because re-assigning employees to different departments is 'done routinely' within an organization, pretty basic stuff.  No "ADDITIONAL" OVERSIGHT WAS LEVIED ON THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT.  NO "NEW CONDITIONS" WERE PLACED ON THE COACHES OR PLAYERS....so how does moving our academic advisory/oversight from the Athletic Department to Academic amount to a 'coach getting his wings clipped'...This was simply transfering the responsibility and oversight from one department to another to help maintain proverbial 'chinese walls' and protect the University's 'integrity'.  A move I might add that the Tribune agreed with, is going on at Universities throughout the country.  This was a systematic process that helped our athletic department compete and compare to Athletic Departments around the country.  Insuring no employee of the University is put in a compromising position...no 'wing clipping' here...unless you want to look at it that way.  Then you should also state Doug Woolard got his wings clipped, Stan Heath, Lelo Prado....