Is the 2008 class in a tail spin ?

[tampaboi07]

yes youre right.We need those 4 and 5 star players FSU and MIA has been landing in the last few years.

[Ruger7mmmag]

yes youre right.We need those 4 and 5 star players FSU and MIA has been landing in the last few years.

Uhmm, you mean the same kids that are going in the first round of the NFL draft EVERY YEAR? 

Don't confuse the lack of wins with lack of talent.  If Leavitt had those guys, we'd have been in a few BCS bowls.  When those guys are LIGHTING IT UP in the NFL that speaks more to lack of coaching.

Go back through the last 5 years on Rivals for FSU and Miami and see how many of those 4 and 5 star players are now in the NFL.  It's a pretty good percentage.

The kids who are rated higher have usually gotten seen more due to them attending camps and the like.  Granted not everyone can afford those so some will not make it through, but I can tell you most 5 star kids that come out end up being STUDS unless they have a severely bad attitude which keeps them off the field.

[Mama_Bull]

We lost Mains, our priced DE and now Kion Wilson commitment is not looking so rock solid. >

On 1010 radio just now, Josh said that Kion told him he will be at USF to enroll this spring. Scout only lists him as a soft verbal because Kion didn't say conclusively that he wouldn't visit anyone else. But Josh said you can "bank" on him being here.

[Jihme]

don't you guys realize that we are already way ahead of where we would normally be?

look at how may kids we have commited right now and comepare that to this time last year and the year before... we are doing SOOOO much better

[Jihme]

each year the class gets better and better and having these auburn, lsu and miami commits actually setting official visits with us is ENORMOUS!

just having these kids set a visit with us is huge when you compare it to them not even knowing who we are a few years ago

[Jihme]

we're also on the verge of getting some prospects to decommit and then commit to us, which is also enormously huge

and let's not forget that we have historically gotten the under-the-radar type of kids to come in and totally kick a$$.  (see:  selvie, grothe, etc)

[Ruger7mmmag]

No doubt we're making progress, but at the same time, it's critical that we CLOSE a few of these guys THIS YEAR. Coming off of two good seasons and our first top 25 ranking, a few 4 stars would go along way to legitimizing ourselves where it means most, on the streets.  You start getting 4 star kids out of HS, whose friends start coming to games, then you get that pipeline going as it becomes a "cool" place to go. 

The personal relationships and "selling ability" of our coaches are about to be measured.  If our guys are good recruiters, they'll "sell" a few of these guys bc there's too many good reasons to play at USF from weather, to tons to do in the city, proximity to home and a chance to play quite a bit on tv and in big games.

I'm just hoping our "salesmen" are up to the challenge bc they definitely have the tools after this team delivered 9 wins in back to back years with incredible road victories.

[Papaljuice]

don't you guys realize that we are already way ahead of where we would normally be?

look at how may kids we have commited right now and comepare that to this time last year and the year before... we are doing SOOOO much better

Nicely put! I agree. I think we are doing just fine.

[tampaboi07]

yes youre right.We need those 4 and 5 star players FSU and MIA has been landing in the last few years.

Uhmm, you mean the same kids that are going in the first round of the NFL draft EVERY YEAR? 

Don't confuse the lack of wins with lack of talent.  If Leavitt had those guys, we'd have been in a few BCS bowls.  When those guys are LIGHTING IT UP in the NFL that speaks more to lack of coaching.

Go back through the last 5 years on Rivals for FSU and Miami and see how many of those 4 and 5 star players are now in the NFL.  It's a pretty good percentage.

The kids who are rated higher have usually gotten seen more due to them attending camps and the like.  Granted not everyone can afford those so some will not make it through, but I can tell you most 5 star kids that come out end up being STUDS unless they have a severely bad attitude which keeps them off the field.

ILL  PLAY...

Are  you telling  me  you would rather have some NFL prospects than to have a good team?Ill take a good team over a few NFL prospects every year.

Do one of those teams even have a player close to Jenkins  or  Selvie?How  about a LBer  better than BEN?I wont put tmac into it because hes a trans.How about a QB better than Grothe?Are their o- line better than ours?If so by how much?I would  put money on Jerome Murphy being better than most of their CBs also,Yes, even their starters.I haven't even mentioned Trea yet or mompremier.Is Rolle better  than  Nate  Allen?If you think so go back and look at  some FSU games.I would also take CM and TJ over ever WR UM has.

We have better talent.MIA and FSU has guys that kills at the combines..like MIKE will do this year.

Over the past few years who was the best FSU LBer.Sims?no.Timmons?no.Geno?no.It was Buster Davis by far and he was picked well below Ernie and LT.Snake was better than Ernie and LT also (i think Buster was better than snake and Ben) so is BIG BENN and both of those players were better than ERNIE and LT.Now Ernie is doing great in the NFL but he wasn't great in College.

Saying CJL would do better with those players is just speculation.Every player cant be coached  up.CJL might have done better  but he might have done worse we cant prove it either way.

You also failed to mention some of the higher rated guys we have landed one way or other tht has either not panned out or is stuck behind a more talented lower rated guy.

Off the top of my head:

Gilliam

Hill

Riley

Harry-ha dnt make me laugh

Im sure theres more someone could fill in the blanks.

[Ruger7mmmag]

yes youre right.We need those 4 and 5 star players FSU and MIA has been landing in the last few years.

Uhmm, you mean the same kids that are going in the first round of the NFL draft EVERY YEAR? 

Don't confuse the lack of wins with lack of talent.  If Leavitt had those guys, we'd have been in a few BCS bowls.  When those guys are LIGHTING IT UP in the NFL that speaks more to lack of coaching.

Go back through the last 5 years on Rivals for FSU and Miami and see how many of those 4 and 5 star players are now in the NFL.  It's a pretty good percentage.

The kids who are rated higher have usually gotten seen more due to them attending camps and the like.  Granted not everyone can afford those so some will not make it through, but I can tell you most 5 star kids that come out end up being STUDS unless they have a severely bad attitude which keeps them off the field.

ILL  PLAY...

Are  you telling  me  you would rather have some NFL prospects than to have a good team?Ill take a good team over a few NFL prospects every year.

Do one of those teams even have a player close to Jenkins  or  Selvie?How  about a LBer  better than BEN?I wont put tmac into it because hes a trans.How about a QB better than Grothe?Are their o- line better than ours?If so by how much?I would  put money on Jerome Murphy being better than most of their CBs also,Yes, even their starters.I haven't even mentioned Trea yet or mompremier.Is Rolle better  than  Nate  Allen?If you think so go back and look at  some FSU games.I would also take CM and TJ over ever WR UM has.

We have better talent.MIA and FSU has guys that kills at the combines..like MIKE will do this year.

Over the past few years who was the best FSU LBer.Sims?no.Timmons?no.Geno?no.It was Buster Davis by far and he was picked well below Ernie and LT.Snake was better than Ernie and LT also (i think Buster was better than snake and Ben) so is BIG BENN and both of those players were better than ERNIE and LT.Now Ernie is doing great in the NFL but he wasn't great in College.

Saying CJL would do better with those players is just speculation.Every player cant be coached  up.CJL might have done better  but he might have done worse we cant prove it either way.

You also failed to mention some of the higher rated guys we have landed one way or other tht has either not panned out or is stuck behind a more talented lower rated guy.

Off the top of my head:

Gilliam

Hill

Riley

Harry-ha dnt make me laugh

Im sure theres more someone could fill in the blanks.

Son, you're missing the point.  A team is made up of what?  Players.  The better players you have, the better your team will be if you've got coaches who are worth a darn.  The best indication we have to go on is these recruiting rankings.  Yes, they are not infallible, but they are a PRETTY DARN INDICATION OF ABILITY more than they are not as I will show you below.  If they are good enough to play in the NFL, then they're better than good enough to play at USF.

You are smoking some serious crack if you don't think FSU and Miami has had superior talent than we have during the same period despite their records.  It's almost CRIMINAL the results they have gotten with players who were deemed good enough to play in the NFL. 

We'll examine a class where we know the guys have all used up their elgibility and thus can be judged of how they ended up which would be 2002.  Here's a list of 4 and 5 star guys FSU has had since their 2002 recruiting class and let's see how they ended up.

2002

Lorenzo Booker-5 star-NFL

Broderick Bunkley-4 star-NFL

Buster Davis-4 star-NFL

Chris Davis-5 star-NFL

Sam McGrew-4 star-NFL

AJ Nicholson-4 star-Was easily an NFL talent but threw it away with being a moron.  Still, was on the field wreaking havoc at FSU and was a STUD.

PK Sam (Lorne)-4 star-NFL

Leon Washington-5 star-NFL

Pat Watkins-5 star-NFL

Kamerion Wimbley-4 star-NFL

So let's look at this tally.  10 of the 4+ star players they had got a shot in the NFL from this ONE CLASS and only 6 did not.  Wow, 10 of 16 played in the NFL! 

How many in our 2002 class went to the NFL?

Oh yeah, that's right, ONE.

Let's use a tad bit of logic shall we?  This year, Leavitt has 4 players on the team spanning a few draft classes mind you and look at what he did.  Imagine if he had a WHOLE TEAM stocked with this kind of talent.

If you've watched FSU the last few years, you'd know it's not the players who were killing FSU, but the coaching.  Jeff Bowden couldn't score 20 points with a Hall of Fame cast of characters and this year was a result of implementing a new system and having two QBs who were mentally WRECKED from the Jeff Bowden days.

The end game is this, if you were to take 100 4+ star players and put them up against a mixed bag of 100 below 4 star players, if the same coach was on both sides of the field, the 4+ guys are going to wipe the floor with the other guys by a factor of probably 10 to 1.  I don't have time to do the numbers, but I know we've had a lot of guys in here and very few have made the NFL and you using Stirrups as an example was pretty stupid if you're banking a STATISTICAL ARGUMENT on an OUTLIER.