Recruiting Concerns

[Mission9]

[  .... some of which, apparently, are a little lacking in the clue department. It's kind of a good news/bad news situation.  8-)

Would this be considered an understatement on your part?

I'm trying a new, kindler, gentle approach ...

10-4

[Guest BasketBull.]

I can't believe some are still not happy with this class, especially with one Mr. Ford to crown it off.

...what can you do but  ;D  ;D  ;D

[UCFanatic]

Recruiting is just one small facet of the whole picture.  Look at UCF and USF's respective rankings.  each year they're fairly close, yet USF beats them each year AND succeeds in a far more difficult conference while UCF struggles in a weak C-USA.

While the Top 10 are obviously getting the cream of the crop, for the rest of us it's not just recruiting... it's what the coaches can do with the talent they do land.  USF's turned a lot of two-star kids into performers on the field.  That's all that counts.

Just something to point out gentleman. The recruiting classes that you claim are close on paper from UCF and USF havent stepped on the field yet for the most part. Here is a trend so at least it makes sense when you talk about it:

2002    7 three stars, 4 four stars  (Most JUCOs who had 1 solid year before grade troubles)

2003    9 three stars (coach K's last year, transition period, mostly JUCO/prep 3-star)

2004    1 three star and low two stars (5.0,5.1,5.2)

2005    4 three star   ( 3 of them JUCO)

2006    6 three star   ( 5 of which are HS) (Most two stars still 5.0/5.1)

2007    7/8 three star, 1 four star  (Almost all HS, most two stars 5.3/5,4. Most players who are 3* fringe much like Claude Davis was before he was upgraded)

I am just making this point when you are talking recruiting. FWIW, . Again, just remember that the class of 2003/2004/2005 were the worst recruiting years ever for UCF. Our bright spots were Brandon Marshall, Mike Walker, and Kevin Smith THATS IT!

Anyhow, I dont think 1 stellar season will impact recruiting as much as you might hope. However, USF should be very good this season and two years of winning really helps I think. I think that the big-3 will be the big-3 for a long time. You have to think, most HS coaches have influence from some of those 3 schools. In addition, USF has only been recruiting football talent for 10+ years! I would say that Ford is huge for you guys.

[UCFanatic]

because as much as Bulls fans dont want to hear it. OUR PROGRAM IS  NOT AT THE LEVEL AS MIAMI OR FSU YET.

We will get there but it will take alot more than 1 good season and a Miami Down year.

UCF was ranked higher than us last year and it could be said that they had a better year than we did. Does that make them a better program? Yes I know we beat UCF I do believe alot of their sucess was smoke and mirrors.

Yes we had a great year. But we also had a year where we lost to Kansas, Cincy, and came close to losing to FIU.

Next year is the year to prove if this year was not a fluke.

Although they may finish strong USF, is right with FSU and UM in recruiting this year.  You can go by rankings, and as of the 30th FSU was ranked 49th on scout, but has since moved up.  Honestly there are a couple of Miami recruits that are highly overrated.  

USF's class is fantastic by most standards, and easily by our standards.  I would say this is USF's best class by far top to bottom.  I usually rate classes by what type of athletes you have in the bottom 3rd, in the past, and understandably so, we've had decent athletes and some fillers.  This year especially is loaded with top notch talent, particularly adding in the early enrollees.

Hey bullsmania, I always laugh at the ignorant, and I've got lots more adjectives to describe them but I will refrain so Brad won't come down on me, posters that point out flaws and act like we should be doing everything a super program is doing.  Then, now here's the laugher, they say they're 'realists' and are not wearing 'green and gold' glasses but others like you and I are the ones wearing the classes.  Here's where irony rears it's crazy little head, most of us that recognize and applaud the accomplishments are actually the 'realists', and the ones NOT 'wearing green and gold glasses.  Because we REALize the programs capabilities, and abilities, and we REALize that their accomplishments, albeit not the pinnacle of college sports, are very amazing given the REAL circumstances this athletic department is faced with.  We REALize, that to build a great program you've got to win, and grow.  For example, Gonzaga had to make an NCAA Tournament before fans followed and started donating...no school has ever won a national championship or gone to a BCS game in their first crack.  We REALize, even Boise State had to go to 7 straight bowls, get ranked in the top 25 a few times win some, recruit hard, slowly build before they finally were able to crack the top 5.  We REALize that Boise State's amazing run, and subsequent top 5 finish was not because of one season, but a culmination of 7 as they slowly built to this point.

SO, we REALize you've got to walk before we run, and run before we jump.  We're know how difficult it is to achieve even what we've done.  Honestly I marvel at how competitive USF is in virtually every sport with such a limited fan and donor base.  I don't wear 'green and gold' glasses except for my cheering.  

Those folks are the ones wearing the 'green and gold' classes and are NOT the REALISTS because they think to much of their alma mater and their capabilities, and through their 'green and gold' glasses they think overachievement is a National Championship.  Through their 'green and gold' glasses they think USF can compete in recruiting against anyone in their country.  FOLKS I WANT WHAT THOSE GUYS ARE SMOKING AND I WISH I COULD WEAR THEIR GREEN AND GOLD GLASSES BECAUSE THE REALITY IS FAR DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY SEE OR KNOW.  REALISTs they are not, more like dreamers, or rather purely negative people.  

As many motivational speakers will tell you in a group usually 20% are negative, 20% are positive and 60% sit on the fence swinging both ways.  The 20% that are negative will always be that way and the goal of the 20% positive leaders is to not waste time and energy trying to sway the 20% negative because ultimately you will never do that.  Work with the 60% so they don't fall prey to the chicken little mentality.

Also wanted to add that BSU's recruiting classes arent that great on paper FWIW. There is something to be said about development

[Mama_Bull]

Try to remember how far we have come in so short a period of time.  

Our recruiting classes have improved.  The only problem or question I have regarding some of the commits deals with whether they will qualify.

Of course, that is a question we face every year, and probably will continue to face for a long time to come.

In any event, I am very happy with where we are today.  I'll let tomorrow take care of itself.

GO BULLS!!!!

[windbane]

I think next year will show (again) how far ahead of UCF we are.

[Bullpride08]

because as much as Bulls fans dont want to hear it. OUR PROGRAM IS  NOT AT THE LEVEL AS MIAMI OR FSU YET.

We will get there but it will take alot more than 1 good season and a Miami Down year.

UCF was ranked higher than us last year and it could be said that they had a better year than we did. Does that make them a better program? Yes I know we beat UCF I do believe alot of their sucess was smoke and mirrors.

Yes we had a great year. But we also had a year where we lost to Kansas, Cincy, and came close to losing to FIU.

Next year is the year to prove if this year was not a fluke.

Although they may finish strong USF, is right with FSU and UM in recruiting this year.  You can go by rankings, and as of the 30th FSU was ranked 49th on scout, but has since moved up.  Honestly there are a couple of Miami recruits that are highly overrated.  

USF's class is fantastic by most standards, and easily by our standards.  I would say this is USF's best class by far top to bottom.  I usually rate classes by what type of athletes you have in the bottom 3rd, in the past, and understandably so, we've had decent athletes and some fillers.  This year especially is loaded with top notch talent, particularly adding in the early enrollees.

Hey bullsmania, I always laugh at the ignorant, and I've got lots more adjectives to describe them but I will refrain so Brad won't come down on me, posters that point out flaws and act like we should be doing everything a super program is doing.  Then, now here's the laugher, they say they're 'realists' and are not wearing 'green and gold' glasses but others like you and I are the ones wearing the classes.  Here's where irony rears it's crazy little head, most of us that recognize and applaud the accomplishments are actually the 'realists', and the ones NOT 'wearing green and gold glasses.  Because we REALize the programs capabilities, and abilities, and we REALize that their accomplishments, albeit not the pinnacle of college sports, are very amazing given the REAL circumstances this athletic department is faced with.  We REALize, that to build a great program you've got to win, and grow.  For example, Gonzaga had to make an NCAA Tournament before fans followed and started donating...no school has ever won a national championship or gone to a BCS game in their first crack.  We REALize, even Boise State had to go to 7 straight bowls, get ranked in the top 25 a few times win some, recruit hard, slowly build before they finally were able to crack the top 5.  We REALize that Boise State's amazing run, and subsequent top 5 finish was not because of one season, but a culmination of 7 as they slowly built to this point.

SO, we REALize you've got to walk before we run, and run before we jump.  We're know how difficult it is to achieve even what we've done.  Honestly I marvel at how competitive USF is in virtually every sport with such a limited fan and donor base.  I don't wear 'green and gold' glasses except for my cheering.  

Those folks are the ones wearing the 'green and gold' classes and are NOT the REALISTS because they think to much of their alma mater and their capabilities, and through their 'green and gold' glasses they think overachievement is a National Championship.  Through their 'green and gold' glasses they think USF can compete in recruiting against anyone in their country.  FOLKS I WANT WHAT THOSE GUYS ARE SMOKING AND I WISH I COULD WEAR THEIR GREEN AND GOLD GLASSES BECAUSE THE REALITY IS FAR DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY SEE OR KNOW.  REALISTs they are not, more like dreamers, or rather purely negative people.  

As many motivational speakers will tell you in a group usually 20% are negative, 20% are positive and 60% sit on the fence swinging both ways.  The 20% that are negative will always be that way and the goal of the 20% positive leaders is to not waste time and energy trying to sway the 20% negative because ultimately you will never do that.  Work with the 60% so they don't fall prey to the chicken little mentality.

Also wanted to add that BSU's recruiting classes arent that great on paper FWIW. There is something to be said about development

BSU's recruiting classes were actually very good on paper compared to their counterparts in the WAC, in the past five years BSU has brought in some stellar 4 star recruits and JC transfers that have really helped.  But you are right it's always one part recruiting and two parts development, and one part having the proper system for said players to excel in and recruiting the right players for that system.  Case in point we run a wide open spread offense, PJ not the QB for that offense, Grothe ran it in HS and fit it like a glove.  That's an example of good recruiting, good coaching, and recruiting a player that was right for the system.  

Your earlier years you cited for UCF were better than most of your fans give Coach K credit for, his demise wasn't so much the recruiting it was an inability to retain good coaches, and a combination of not being in a conference and having a schedule conducive to allowing your talent to excel.  Those years in 2002 and 2003 produced and UCF recruited some great players but Coach K took to many risks on guys that never made it in, and grabbed some bad apples to boot that he didn't deal with early enough and slowly became cancers.  Those were his problems by and large.

Leavitt has proven to be a master at getting the most out of kids.  He's learned to do that since his days at Morningside, and coaching under Hayden Frye at Iowa, and Snyder at KSU.  This allows him to do more with less, and maximize potential even when some recruiting services ignore that potential.

[bulls96go]

we will be fine.

best class yet

[smazza]

our class is not in a vacuum

our class needs to be pest big east class

being the fourth best big east class isnt that great if bulls are in 40-50 ranking

[Bullpride08]

our class is not in a vacuum

our class needs to be pest big east class

being the fourth best big east class isnt that great if bulls are in 40-50 ranking

It's not that great, and it's not that bad.  Also our HC, his system, and the overall coaching staff has proven to excel at coaching up players which is good for a 15-20 pt boost in ranking which puts us near the top 25.