Thoughts on rivalries...

[Bull Dozer]

That's not how it works, but most UCF fans and apparently the media don't get that. Geography does not equal a rivalry. Look at USC and Notre Dame. Or Florida and Tennessee.

Really?

So says:

Florida St-Florida

Florida St-Miami

Florida-Georgia

Clemson-South Carolina

Alabama-Auburn

Georgia-Georgia Tech

Ole Miss-Mississippi St

Colorado-Colorado St

Washington-Washington St

UCLA-USC

Penn St-Pitt (sadly, basically dead now)

Va Tech-Virginia

LSU-Ole Miss

Texas-Texas A&M

Should I go on?

Iowa-Iowa St

Michigan-Michigan St

Notre Dame-Purdue

Harvard-Yale

Oregon-Oregon St

Louisville-Kentucky

Oklahoma-Texas

Oklahoma-Oklahome St

Yeah...Geography has nothing to do with rivalries (yes, there are some NATIONAL Rivalries...but most are LOCAL/REGIONAL in nature)

Well this just proves my point. UCF wants a football rivalry (which is stupid, you can't want a rivalry) based on geography.

but the students and players not liking the opposing students/players can.....

[Triple B]

Yeah...Geography has nothing to do with rivalries

Geography does not equal a rivalry.

Anybody with above middle school intelligence can see the difference in those two statements ...

FAU-UM

FIU-UM

PSU-Temple

Pitt-Temple

OSU-OU

OSU-Miami(OH)

OSU-BGSU

OSU-Akron

OSU-Kent State

EMU-UM

WMU-UM

CMU-UM

EMU-MSU

WMU-MSU

CMU-MSU

USC-ECU

Louisiana-Lafayette-LSU

Louisiana-Monroe-LSU

Louisiana Tech-LSU

Arkansas State-Arkansas

Ball State-Purdue

Ball State-Notre Dame

Middle Tennessee-UT

Get the picture?

[Jamie]

But there has always been some sneering snobbery between USF and UCF students...

Here's another local (for me) example. SMU and TCU have the same sort of arrangement as USF and UCF, and their football rivalry is lukewarm at best. I don't think any of the TCU grads I work with get excited about the SMU game. Their biggest rivalry is probably how much credit card debt they can rack up.

[BULLheaded]

USF and UCF are both competing for the same thing: inclusion in the upper echelon of Florida football.  Both schools want the Big 3 to become the Big 4.  Doesn't that give them something worthwhile for which to compete??

But Jim, which is more important to you, becoming the Big 4th or creating a rivalry with UCF? Could we do both? Absolutely, but WE have all the components to become that 4th without having to play them the way things are set up right now. They can't, realistically, say the same thing, no matter how much they want to deny it. They COULD get to that 4th spot but it will be a heck of a lot harder than the road we have and beating us would be part of their path.

I know you don't think the outcome of this game would have any bearing on that but I do .....

If any of this has already been addressed on this thread and shot down, I apologize for the redundancy.  

If I have to choose one, it's becoming one of the Big 4, but I firmly believe we could do both.

There is only one thing that could put USF into the Big 4: winning the Big East and getting to the first BCS bowl.  Losing to UCF could affect which bowl USF goes to, but it won't affect the fact that USF can get to a BCS bowl.  Once we are a proven BCS team, that puts USF into the Big 4...

To me, they are totally seperate issues with one having no bearing on the other.

---

That could be part of the reason CJL doesn't want to carry the UCF game forward, because he thinks USF could make it to the BCS in the next four years.  At that point, I think a potential series with UM could be even more likely to happen.

I totally disagree, the only way both could happen is if it is the big 5 which would include UCF. The reason I say this is if we attain a level of the other three we would end up light years ahead of UCF (ie...42-0 type games) This will also mean we are playing for the conference championships, BCS bids and possibly National Titles. We would be so far ahead of them that the game would have as little meaning as our games do for the big 3 when e play them now. The only way this can be a rivalry game is if we either both reach that level or neither of us reach that level. I think we have to make the choice, do we want to go after the big 4 alone or do we try to nurture a rivalry that will require UCF along for the ride?

[Guest]

I totally disagree, the only way both could happen is if it is the big 5 which would include UCF. The reason I say this is if we attain a level of the other three we would end up light years ahead of UCF (ie...42-0 type games) This will also mean we are playing for the conference championships, BCS bids and possibly National Titles. We would be so far ahead of them that the game would have as little meaning as our games do for the big 3 when e play them now. The only way this can be a rivalry game is if we either both reach that level or neither of us reach that level. I think we have to make the choice, do we want to go after the big 4 alone or do we try to nurture a rivalry that will require UCF along for the ride?

That makes some sense.

My point was that scheduling the games - forget the rivalry part for a second - consider the other positives (close game, cost savings, larger-than-average crowds).  USF could play these games until it became part of the Big 4... at that point UM - and maybe FSU - would probably be willing to build annual games.

Which is why I said let's schedule another 1 for 1 in the future (2010-2012?) and see if everyone feels the same way... then rotate FAU, FIU, and UCF through 2 for 1s every few years.

---

This has been an interesting thread.  I can say that I am no longer of the mindset that UCF should be our rival - but that the game should continue until USF gets to the promised land OR until UM agrees to an annual game.

[BULLheaded]

There is only one thing that could put USF into the Big 4: winning the Big East and getting to the first BCS bowl.

Losing to UCF could affect which bowl USF goes to, but it won't affect the fact that USF can get to a BCS bowl.  Once we are a proven BCS team, that puts USF into the Big 4...

To me, they are totally seperate issues with one having no bearing on the other.

I don't think it's that easy. You're saying if we beat UConn last year and then somehow upset WVU to get to the Sugar Bowl, we're in the Big 4 ...... I don't see it. To be included in the Big 4 one of the criteria has to be beating one of them. If we do that but in that same year lose to UCF, you lose that edge .... IMO.

 

I think if USF makes it to the Sugar Bowl last year, then USF would easily be a Top 25 pre-season this year... (after all WVU made it to the Sugar Bowl and was pre-season Top 5).  I don't know if USF beats Miami or Florida while going 3-8 would mean we are in the Big 4.

The Big 3 are the Big 3 because they are perennial top 25 teams.  To get into the Big 4, USF needs to be a Top 25 team - individual wins and losses become less relevant.

Yup the Big 3 is about consistant success not beating each other.  

the big three is about constant success against the best teams in the nation. We'll be playing 2 of them in the future, if we walk away with a 42-0 ass whooping like ucf did trust me we will not be considered "there" yet.

Say what you want but these three teams are national powerhouses, they have multiple national championships under their belt and for years FSU and UM single handedly brought respect to their conferences, even to the point that other teams have used this respect to build their own teams into powers (see VT) We could beat ucf for 100 years straight but if we can't beat the big boys we aren't one of the big boys.

[BULLheaded]

That's not how it works, but most UCF fans and apparently the media don't get that. Geography does not equal a rivalry. Look at USC and Notre Dame. Or Florida and Tennessee.

Really?

So says:

Florida St-Florida

Florida St-Miami

Florida-Georgia

Clemson-South Carolina

Alabama-Auburn

Georgia-Georgia Tech

Ole Miss-Mississippi St

Colorado-Colorado St

Washington-Washington St

UCLA-USC

Penn St-Pitt (sadly, basically dead now)

Va Tech-Virginia

LSU-Ole Miss

Texas-Texas A&M

Should I go on?

Iowa-Iowa St

Michigan-Michigan St

Notre Dame-Purdue

Harvard-Yale

Oregon-Oregon St

Louisville-Kentucky

Oklahoma-Texas

Oklahoma-Oklahome St

Yeah...Geography has nothing to do with rivalries (yes, there are some NATIONAL Rivalries...but most are LOCAL/REGIONAL in nature)

Juat a stupid post, he said geography does not MAKE a rivalry. He didn't say that none exist between team in close proximity :

[Triple B]

That's not how it works, but most UCF fans and apparently the media don't get that. Geography does not equal a rivalry. Look at USC and Notre Dame. Or Florida and Tennessee.

Really?

So says:

Florida St-Florida

Florida St-Miami

Florida-Georgia

Clemson-South Carolina

Alabama-Auburn

Georgia-Georgia Tech

Ole Miss-Mississippi St

Colorado-Colorado St

Washington-Washington St

UCLA-USC

Penn St-Pitt (sadly, basically dead now)

Va Tech-Virginia

LSU-Ole Miss

Texas-Texas A&M

Should I go on?

Iowa-Iowa St

Michigan-Michigan St

Notre Dame-Purdue

Harvard-Yale

Oregon-Oregon St

Louisville-Kentucky

Oklahoma-Texas

Oklahoma-Oklahome St

Yeah...Geography has nothing to do with rivalries (yes, there are some NATIONAL Rivalries...but most are LOCAL/REGIONAL in nature)

Juat a stupid post, he said geography does not MAKE a rivalry. He didn't say that none exist between team in close proximity :

That was pretty obvious to most of us .......... the Bulls fans, anyway.   8-)

[smazza]

Here is my question for you. If you had the chance to bring any team in the country to ray jay who would it be? Would you use that pick for UCF? Would UCF be in the top 5 of that list? Would you prefer them over UF, FSU, UM.....or more realistically would you rather it be them over Louisville, Pitt or WVU even? Not me, I'll take any of those teams along with a huge list of other teams before UCF would even get a thought. If you don't put them on the top of the list how can this really be an intense rivalry? If you do put them up there what is the attraction for you? Bragging rights for the state? Proof of how great a team we are? National exposure? National respect? Is it that they are so full of tradition and talent that being on the same field with them is great? Please help me here as I can't think of anything enticing in this game. Yes it's close but who really cares about distance if you don't care about the team?

at this point in time i would want the best program over laast couple of years

the team that is the gold standard of football

usc

[smazza]

i would want an annual game with  uf

if not possible second choice fsu

if not possible miami

if not possible ftu/ou/oc

i would play fau/fiu every other year