Big 4: What will it take?

[Griggsy]

Leavitt says you have to beat one of the Big 3 to be considered a Big 4 member. Do you agree with this? It's not like there's some Big 4 Committee out there who can officially deem USF a member...so it's somewhat ambiguous. I tend to disagree.

Let's say we beat Miami this year. I just don't see anyone announcing "yep, USF is right up there with the Big 3" (other than maybe CJL or Judy)

Personally, I think the recipe consists of four ingredients:

1. A string of dominant years in the Big East, with a couple of conference championships

2. Beat each member of the Big 3 at least once

3. A national championship

4. A couple of good showings in major BCS bowls against quality competition

At that point, I think even Big 3 members (who would be the least willing to admit a n00b into their exclusive club) would probably be receptive to the idea.

What say you?

[nobull.Bulls]

Just beat Miami and FSU this year and then you can say big 3 or big 4

[Guest]

We don't have to win the national championship to be part of a Big 4...

Coach Leavitt has always said to join 'em, you have to beat 'em.  So I 2009-2010 is the best chance: sweep FSU-Miami-Florida these two years would be all it would really take...

The rest - Big East or National Championships or BCS bowl wins - would grow our national presence... but the Big Three are the big three in Florida... not "THE" Big Three (which I would say are Southern Cal, Ohio State, and Texas right now).

We don't need national presence to enter the club - just proving to Florida recruits we can are on par with the Big Three will do it.

In fact, winning the Big East and BCS bowls without beating the Big Three would be a detriment.

I know CJL and the team focus on the Big East championship as the primary goal ... but beating other Florida teams has just as important for the long-term success of the program.

(Think about it: if we lost to UCF, FAU, and FIU... how would we look to Florida recruits?  The same is true for the image of Big Three if they lose to us...)

[Griggsy]

That's kind of my point, it's all about perception. To a recruit, yeah, you're probably right.  But try beating a downtrodden Miami and then strolling up to a Gator grad and announcing that USF has arrived. Granted, validation from UF fans is certainly not required, but I think in the minds of most football-lovin' Floridians, there are certain criteria that must be met which exceed simply knocking off a Big 3 team during a gutter year at our house.

FSU finished in the top 5 of the AP poll for 14 straight years, dominated its conference, has the only wire-to-wire #1 in CFB history.

UF has had alot of recent success, including 3 national titles in slightly over a decade, in the arguably toughest conference

Miami has 5 NCs and I think the article Jim posted yesterday about their string of first rounders tells their tale pretty well.

So what Im hearing now is that USF, which went 2-5 in conference play last year, has choked two seasons in a row, hasn't won a conference title, has never been to (much less won) a major BCS bowl, obviously no NCs, etc...will be worthy of being named among the above if we beat one of them once? Sorry, I love USF but I just don't agree. The bar is set much higher than that.

[Griggsy]

Wanted to add something:

USF fans are always quick to downplay history and focus on current success. We HAVE to. But there is something to be said for history. Think of it this way. Imagine if USF continues on its rapid rise to the ranks of the elite. Lets say over the next 10 years we accomplish all those criteria I mentioned in the original post and that even the most skeptical Big 3 fans are finally willing to admit there is a Big 4.

Now, imagine that we have a down year (injuries, whatever) and an inspired UCF team pulls off an upset in Orlando. The next day, OLeary announces the arrival of the Big 5, without any conference titles, major bowl wins, etc, to his name.

Suddenly, history would be very important and WE would be quick to point out that UCF has much still to accomplish before making it a Big 5.

I'm just saying.

[Rizman]

Keep FSU close, beat Miami and then win the Big East will be a start.  But, that is the problem, it is just a start.  It will take time and many Big East Championships, plus some wins at the elite bowl level. 

[USFishin]

Wanted to add something:

USF fans are always quick to downplay history and focus on current success. We HAVE to. But there is something to be said for history. Think of it this way. Imagine if USF continues on its rapid rise to the ranks of the elite. Lets say over the next 10 years we accomplish all those criteria I mentioned in the original post and that even the most skeptical Big 3 fans are finally willing to admit there is a Big 4.

Now, imagine that we have a down year (injuries, whatever) and an inspired UCF team pulls off an upset in Orlando. The next day, OLeary announces the arrival of the Big 5, without any conference titles, major bowl wins, etc, to his name.

Suddenly, history would be very important and WE would be quick to point out that UCF has much still to accomplish before making it a Big 5.

I'm just saying.

UCF would have to do more than just beat us to be considered part of the "big 5."  They have still yet to beat a ranked team.  We have beaten several ranked teams.  We are close to being considered part of the "big 4" because of factors other than beating one of the current "big 3."  Beating the "big 3" would just solidify our membership in the prestigious club.

[CowbellBandit]

We need notoriety. Recognition puts our name in consideration, so the BE 'ship might help. But its not the Big 4 until we tally wins against the 3.

[Guest nybullsfan]

at the risk of repeating myself from the '5 yr plan' thread...

all we need to do to join the 'big 4' is goal #2.

These should be our goals every year, in this order.

1. Win the conference. Main goal every year. Gets us to a BCS bowl and a big payout.

2. Maintain an overall winning percentage against UF / FSU / UM. Secondary to winning the BE, but still important for recruiting.

Do these and we'll get good press and lots of TV times

3. Win the NC. In the BE, there's no way we can do this if we don't win the conference, so it's secondary.

[Ruger7mmmag]

You have to succeed enough to start impacting their programs.  That's when you've become one of the gang.  It's not when the fans acknowledge it bc some in those circles will NEVER give USF any credit regardless of what we do.  Sort of the "old money" vs. "new money" thing.

When we start going in and grabbing recruits they want on a REGULAR BASIS, then USF for all intents and purposes has arrived in the minds of those coaches which is all that matters.  Bc if we're stealing 4 and 5 star guys with regularity, then the other items on all these lists will fall into place bc the talent will be there to do it.  Before we grabbed guys like Daniels, Giddens, Barrington etc, we were lumped in with UCF by those 3.  Now, without even playing a game against them, you can already tell we're really not in those same conversations with UCF, but we're not up there with them either.

The fact they're "hating" on us already shows we have their attention.  Beating them so we can steal MORE big time recruits THEY WANT is the next step bc it all starts with recruiting.  Its the recruits who determine who are the major players TODAY and they do that with where they choose to go.  As we can see with this last class.  We're getting closer, but we're definitely not there yet.