bonds is redefining the art of hitting

[___ Eats It]

Guys, let's just give this argument to BullShizzNitz.  I mean, obviously if you can steal 50 bases in a season, it doesn't matter if you score less, get on base less, hit less, strike out more... you're the best thing since sliced bread and roids are OK!   : : : :

I'm always amazed at how blind people can really be when they refuse to see the obvious.  Williams was definitely the best HITTER of all time and is in contention for the best PLAYER of all time.  Bonds is merely the best home run hitter of all time, and that's probably due to juice.  There's absolutely no freaking comparison.

[Guest bullshiznitzII]

Hello pot (UEI) meet Mr. Kettle. You base you arguement in the same manner. Hey Im not going to argue that Williams is possibly the best pure hitter ever. But we are talking BEST PLAYER ever and hitting for average isnt the only part of the game. By your arguement defense and speed count for nothing. Why do you think you hear about 5 tool players? Because there is more to the game than just hitting for average, especially when you are talking about best ever. Im sorry, but when I read articles on arguements for best ever, Williams is mentioned (once again) as possibly the best pure hitter, but as far as best player ever the arguements usually steer towards Ruth, Mays and now Bonds. Take off your BoSox colored glasses and see the truth.

[Velcro]

fwiw, i'm not arguing that if Bond's accomplishments were untainted, that Williams would still be better... if I believed Bonds wasn't roiding... i'd say its a toss up and that Bonds was probably more well rounded and would probably win out... but with the roid problem, if he really did use them, and i believe he did, then he isn't worthy of his accomplishments.  

[Guest bullshiznitzII]

VG, I can respect that opinion. I still contest that even if he did, that roids or even just bulking up does not have anywhere near the effect, if at all, that people think it does when it comes to hitting a ball further. If I ever get the time, I will try to research it and post some scientific proof to that nature (of find that Im wrong  ;D, but I doubt it).

Here are the five tools. Bonds has Williams in 3 of 4 with arm strength being debatable.

http://www.performancebaseball.net/html/5tools.html

[KnightsRule]

Hello pot (UEI) meet Mr. Kettle. You base you arguement in the same manner. Hey Im not going to argue that Williams is possibly the best pure hitter ever. But we are talking BEST PLAYER ever and hitting for average isnt the only part of the game. By your arguement defense and speed count for nothing. Why do you think you hear about 5 tool players? Because there is more to the game than just hitting for average, especially when you are talking about best ever. Im sorry, but when I read articles on arguements for best ever, Williams is mentioned (once again) as possibly the best pure hitter, but as far as best player ever the arguements usually steer towards Ruth, Mays and now Bonds. Take off your BoSox colored glasses and see the truth.

I hate to burst your bubble but the Babe had 123 sb in his career and was caught stealing 117 times.  Babe was not a good fielder either.  We are talking about Bonds redefining the art of HITTING as the thread is titled.  Bonds has an arm like a girl too. I gaurentee you that Ted Williams NEVER stood in his position with his hands on his knees as a flyball that he thought was going to be a homer hit the wall behind him.  I saw Bonds do that at least twice and if I was the pitcher I would have punched him right in his giant head for showing me up.

[KnightsRule]

VG, I can respect that opinion. I still contest that even if he did, that roids or even just bulking up does not have anywhere near the effect, if at all, that people think it does when it comes to hitting a ball further. If I ever get the time, I will try to research it and post some scientific proof to that nature (of find that Im wrong  ;D, but I doubt it).

Here are the five tools. Bonds has Williams in 3 of 4 with arm strength being debatable.

http://www.performancebaseball.net/html/5tools.html

Bonds has no arm whatsoever.  I would give Bonds speed for certain, I would also give him fielding.  Hitting for average is definately Teddy, arm strength I give to Teddy.  Hitting for power I would say is about equal with bonds juiced up later years, ypounger years no question teddy was a better power hitter.  Bonds has led league in HR's twice  and ted has led league 4 times. Ted has led in RBI 4 to 2 over bonds and ted has two triple crowns to bonds ZERO.  Williams has 9 slugging titles to bonds six.  And the big key is that most of bonds big power numbers came when he became an old man and grew 5 times his regular size with possibly a little illegal enhancement? And bonds missed almost 4 prime seasons and bonds has missed none.

[___ Eats It]

Honestly, if you want to talk about best PLAYER ever, it's probably Babe Ruth.  The guy led the majors in virtually every offensive stat in his career, PLUS he led the league in ERA, wins, etc as a pitcher.

As fast as Bonds was and as good as a hitter as Teddy was, neither of them can hold a candle to that.

And, for the record, I hate Ruth.  But facts are facts.

Bonds is a juiced up roid head with corrupt stats.  For that reason alone, he can't hold a candle to the top 50 of all time who actually played without "enhancements" and established the record book for mere mortals without planetary-sized craniums.

[smazza]

babe ruth isn't best player ever because he played against slow fat white boys

he didn't play with blacks

[Velcro]

you don't know how he would have done now, so its not really comparable.

[KnightsRule]

babe ruth isn't best player ever because he played against slow fat white boys

he didn't play with blacks

He also played in larger ball parks, not with a juiced ball, not against watered down pitching with 30+ teams.